Ottawa Divorce .com Forums

Ottawa Divorce .com Forums (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/index.php)
-   Divorce Support (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Here we are (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21033)

iona6656 04-17-2019 09:41 AM

What does she want actually? Your fianc to contact kid- give money? Is kid2 copied on the email?

Can he reach out to Kid2 directly?

rockscan 04-17-2019 09:45 AM

Thats the thing. Her only request was one he agrees to every year with no issue. The email has zero important details like costs, expected deadlines, accommodations, program of study etc. The only information she gave, he knew about a few weeks ago from his parents.

Neither kid talks to him. Hes been sending emails and texts and is ignored. Kid doesnt want him knowing anything and the ex in the past has played the entitled to privacy card.

They have a sc coming up so either she is doing this as a check mark for that I share info or shes just being petty to show he has no power over info.

momof2teenboys 04-17-2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235166)
Thats the thing. Her only request was one he agrees to every year with no issue. The email has zero important details like costs, expected deadlines, accommodations, program of study etc. The only information she gave, he knew about a few weeks ago from his parents.

Neither kid talks to him. Hes been sending emails and texts and is ignored. Kid doesnt want him knowing anything and the ex in the past has played the entitled to privacy card.

They have a sc coming up so either she is doing this as a check mark for that I share info or shes just being petty to show he has no power over info.


I think an appropriate response would be -

"Yes I agree with your request regarding xxx. For anything additional please provide costs, expected deadlines, accommodations, programs of study etc as soon as possible. "


I'd also be tempted to add something about the texts and emails to the child regarding these decisions being ignored. If the child wants him to contribute they should be sending him updates at the very least.

rockscan 04-17-2019 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momof2teenboys (Post 235168)
I'd also be tempted to add something about the texts and emails to the child regarding these decisions being ignored. If the child wants him to contribute they should be sending him updates at the very least.


Thats the worst part. The supreme court says he has to pay. Hasnt spoken to him voluntarily in five years but now he has to contribute thousands to education costs.

This whole thing is being discussed at the sc. Why wouldnt she say: in advance of our upcoming appearance, I wanted to advise that kid will be attending x school this fall in y program. It is a four year degree and kid expects to live in residence. At this point we estimate expenses to be z based on the website and materials received. Kid has been working full time and expects to contribute 1/3 of the costs. Or something to that effect. I expect she has not said that as she disagrees with how much the kids have to contribute. Unfortunately for them the leading case law is Lewi. They choose programs living away from home. That means they pay more!

momof2teenboys 04-17-2019 10:39 AM

I totally feel for you. I've been dealing with post-secondary issues with my ex for the past 3 years. And now the youngest will be starting university in the fall. I'll have to send him an email once youngest is ready to make his decision (waiting on one more program that sends out offers in May) and his going to be much more expensive than the path the eldest took (university vs college) and he fought every step of the way to pay his share of that - still owes me over $5,000.

I'll likely have to pay up front for everything and then take him to court to force reimbursement. But at least I know that I need to keep him informed, keep the decisions reasonable regarding the cost of the choices, and keep all the receipts. It'll take years....and all lot of unnecessary stress.
The only difference with us is that the boys have managed to keep communication open with their dad. Although neither will discuss money with him - he's exploded on the eldest multiple times and I get the replay in emails so I don't blame them for trying to avoid it.

iona6656 04-17-2019 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momof2teenboys (Post 235168)
I think an appropriate response would be -

"Yes I agree with your request regarding xxx. For anything additional please provide costs, expected deadlines, accommodations, programs of study etc as soon as possible. "


I'd also be tempted to add something about the texts and emails to the child regarding these decisions being ignored. If the child wants him to contribute they should be sending him updates at the very least.

+1.

ugh. this is all so messy. with requiring costs to be paid absent a relationship with kid(s), etc. I almost feel like if the relationship ceases- all cs should stop too. but i'm saying that from a position where i could still provide absent CS.

I've been banking 80% of CS in a fund for D2, with the intention of using it for post secondary when the time comes...it never even entered into my mind that there would be a fight for this.

rockscan 04-17-2019 11:29 AM

This thing is stupid and ugly and not because of my partner. He has always paid what he owes, always tried to contribute, always given more than is required and always followed the law. His ex disagrees with everything and has since they split. This entire mess is directly her fault because she refused to accept he was entitled to a share of their 20 years together. Then she taught the kids to hate him because of money.

She has all these spreadsheets of costs but no proof. Every year of the last degree my partner has tried to work with her and with kid on expenses and was ignored. Now the second one is headed to school and he gets no info. Added to that, both attended school away from home when they could have gone to school in their city. They live in travel distance to six different post secondary schools! But they choose to incur and additional ten grand a year to go away. Plus the programs they take are general. They arent even in a unique program!! He calculates his cost in line with the law (he has a great lawyer and follows exactly what he sayslawyer said he wishes all his clients and their exs were as reasonable) but she disagrees with that too! Says the tax deductions shouldnt be applied and kid should only have to contribute a couple thousand. Now they are spending thousands on the court process all because the ex plays these games.

It has taken its toll. He keeps saying she lost in the fall, why do the kids not see that? I had to explain to him that they see the loss as further victimization. Even though he was right, she plays it as the judge hates women, he was from the same school as dads lawyer, he didnt understand, the law is wrong etc.

Its all so stupid.

rockscan 04-17-2019 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iona6656 (Post 235174)
I've been banking 80% of CS in a fund for D2, with the intention of using it for post secondary when the time comes...it never even entered into my mind that there would be a fight for this.


1. Open a RESP, thats $7000 in grants.
2. Work with kid to choose a program of study with employment opportunities. Spending 60 grand to be unemployed is worthless.
3. Make sure kid knows they have to contribute.

My niece chose to go away. Her parents said if she chose to go away, they would pay her living costs and thats it. She pays the rest. My friends parents paid their tuition and books but they had to stay home. My partner and I paid all our own school costs. I survived $50,000 in loans. Paid them off finally in my 30s. Its called life. Parents shouldnt go broke for their own education AND their kids.

iona6656 04-17-2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235176)
This thing is stupid and ugly and not because of my partner. He has always paid what he owes, always tried to contribute, always given more than is required and always followed the law. His ex disagrees with everything and has since they split. This entire mess is directly her fault because she refused to accept he was entitled to a share of their 20 years together. Then she taught the kids to hate him because of money.

She has all these spreadsheets of costs but no proof. Every year of the last degree my partner has tried to work with her and with kid on expenses and was ignored. Now the second one is headed to school and he gets no info. Added to that, both attended school away from home when they could have gone to school in their city. They live in travel distance to six different post secondary schools! But they choose to incur and additional ten grand a year to go away. Plus the programs they take are general. They arent even in a unique program!! He calculates his cost in line with the law (he has a great lawyer and follows exactly what he sayslawyer said he wishes all his clients and their exs were as reasonable) but she disagrees with that too! Says the tax deductions shouldnt be applied and kid should only have to contribute a couple thousand. Now they are spending thousands on the court process all because the ex plays these games.

It has taken its toll. He keeps saying she lost in the fall, why do the kids not see that? I had to explain to him that they see the loss as further victimization. Even though he was right, she plays it as the judge hates women, he was from the same school as dads lawyer, he didnt understand, the law is wrong etc.

Its all so stupid.

that is brutal. he can't even let go- because there are big giant fish hooks in him dragging him back.

the thing that is so brutal about the family law system is that usually one party is just in it for the ride- no matter how reasonable, no matter how much compromise one is willing to give- all it takes is for the other side to say "nope"- and off you go.

hats effing off to the self reps out there.

rockscan 04-17-2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iona6656 (Post 235178)
that is brutal. he can't even let go- because there are big giant fish hooks in him dragging him back.



the thing that is so brutal about the family law system is that usually one party is just in it for the ride- no matter how reasonable, no matter how much compromise one is willing to give- all it takes is for the other side to say "nope"- and off you go.



hats effing off to the self reps out there.



Lol his ex was self repped and got smacked by the judge.

He sees a therapist to help with this. Some days are harder than others.

iona6656 04-17-2019 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235177)
1. Open a RESP, thats $7000 in grants.
2. Work with kid to choose a program of study with employment opportunities. Spending 60 grand to be unemployed is worthless.
3. Make sure kid knows they have to contribute.

I've banked it in a savings account for now. I'm not savvy on how RESPs work in divorced situations- but I'll try to remedy that soon.

D2 is so young- but speaking with my nephew who's 11- my sister and her husband do an awesome job explaining that the trades and college are such a good choice. My sister is a registered psychologist and her husband has a college degree but they both just tell him that they expect him to work up to his potential at this point.

Quote:

My niece chose to go away. Her parents said if she chose to go away, they would pay her living costs and thats it. She pays the rest. My friends parents paid their tuition and books but they had to stay home. My partner and I paid all our own school costs. I survived $50,000 in loans. Paid them off finally in my 30s. Its called life. Parents shouldnt go broke for their own education AND their kids.
Agreed that parents shouldn't go broke for kids education but at the same time- I come from a bit of a different school of thought, wherein if the kid works hard and earns the grades to go to post-secondary, I want to be able to pay for it fully. Their job as children is to work hard to live up to their potential- academic or otherwise. My job is to work my butt off to offer them post secondary, or whatever other help they need (e.g. helping with costs for internships through a trades program or the like) to set them up for their careers.

My parents funded 100% of our undergrad. We were expected to work and pay our car costs and have our own spending money. But our parents did not want us working during the school year. We both did anyways- and were able to handle it fine.

My parents gave my sister and I the option for undergrad- you go away and they'll pay the extra cost, or you stay local and they would buy us a car. My sister stayed local- I chose to go away. None of this taught us to take education for granted. And we both worked our butts off in school- and in life to set ourselves up. It's just a friggin shame that I made such bad personal life choices to sort of destroy what I've helped build.

University was expected for us- I don't think I was even given any other option. I asked my mom about this the other day- because our family is definitely not elitist about schooling (we're all 1st generation or 2nd generation immigrants)- while 80% have university degrees, a bunch of others have college and/or trades. I asked her why she just expected my sister and I to go to university- and she said it was because she said she knew we could....okay?

Times have changed though.

Janus 04-17-2019 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235166)
Thats the thing. Her only request was one he agrees to every year with no issue...

They have a sc coming up so either she is doing this as a check mark for that I share info or shes just being petty to show he has no power over info.


Seems like a checkmark situation. I would do exactly the same thing if I had a SC coming up. I'm surprised she isn't being even more cooperative. To be honest, even without a court case coming up, both myself and my ex still regularly send cooperative messages to each other that we know are effectively rhetorical, but make us look good.


"Dear ex, I was thinking we should feed the kids today, do you agree?"




Totally offtopic: I struggled with whether to put "an" or "a" before SC. Depends on whether I pronounce it "settlement conference" or "ess cee". It was the most stress-inducing part of my day up to this point.

rockscan 04-17-2019 11:54 AM

Having had to go back to school (twiceI have three degrees) to get a good job, I know how important it is to know what you want to do and what jobs are in demand. Ive learned the trades is a great field to work in. Robotics for the win! If I had known that, I probably wouldnt have done what I did but...hindsight!

If I had had kids, I would have contributed but not paid all of it. I firmly believe kids need to learn life lessons. So many parents dont do their kids any favours by not teaching them about money, savings and good spending.

As for the RESP when divorced, your money is your money. Anything you open now is yours. Get the grant before your ex does. That money will go a long way. This was discussed at the motion in the fall. Anything from the marriage is shared if not bought out or dealt with. Anything after the date of separation is for your share. My partners ex was mostly mad that she didnt get to know how much money we (yes I said we) had that she could claim should be used for education. Her attitude has always been you have x dollars and have access to y dollars, therefore it should all go to the kids. Im not responsible for his kids poor spending habits.

rockscan 05-14-2019 09:17 AM

First some good news. Im cancer free and can get on with my life. Also, we are getting married in a few weeks and are pretty happy. Hes worried he wont be a good husband but I assure him neither one of us have good days all the time, its how we manage the bad days that get us through.

Now the stupid news. The sc is now adjourned as ex got a lawyer and they need some time to review the case. Which means we are in our third year of this when it should have been resolved in a month outside of court. We are cautiously optimistic that a lawyer will actually get through to her that her requests are not legal. Time will tell though. A new offer went out.

For now we are going to enjoy our small wedding, the new chapter of our life, a week away somewhere and the knowledge that it may be almost over.

iona6656 05-14-2019 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235549)
For now we are going to enjoy our small wedding, the new chapter of our life, a week away somewhere and the knowledge that it may be almost over.

YAY! congratulations. This is all amazing news. Thank you for sharing with us.

Where are you guys headed for your week away??

rockscan 05-14-2019 09:38 AM

Just to the southern US where we first vacationed together. We want to do an all inclusive in December so I am trying to determine which island. Jamaica or Dominican or Cuba. Anyone with tips or suggestions on those are welcome to comment!

iona6656 05-14-2019 09:43 AM

Have you considered Grenada? We have some family friends from there and it's just such a beautiful small island.

rockscan 05-14-2019 09:52 AM

I did look at it but the problem with those types of places is the flight is super expensive and not many have all inclusive. Weve done two vacations now where we had accommodations but had to find out own meals. We want to go back to an all inclusive where we can just eat sleep and drink lol

Mom 2 Two 05-14-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235549)
First some good news. Im cancer free and can get on with my life. Also, we are getting married in a few weeks and are pretty happy. Hes worried he wont be a good husband but I assure him neither one of us have good days all the time, its how we manage the bad days that get us through.

Now the stupid news. The sc is now adjourned as ex got a lawyer and they need some time to review the case. Which means we are in our third year of this when it should have been resolved in a month outside of court. We are cautiously optimistic that a lawyer will actually get through to her that her requests are not legal. Time will tell though. A new offer went out.

For now we are going to enjoy our small wedding, the new chapter of our life, a week away somewhere and the knowledge that it may be almost over.



Awesome news!! Congratulations !! Hoping the lawyer sets the ex straight!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ange71727 05-14-2019 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 235549)
First some good news. Im cancer free and can get on with my life. Also, we are getting married in a few weeks and are pretty happy. Hes worried he wont be a good husband but I assure him neither one of us have good days all the time, its how we manage the bad days that get us through.

Now the stupid news. The sc is now adjourned as ex got a lawyer and they need some time to review the case. Which means we are in our third year of this when it should have been resolved in a month outside of court. We are cautiously optimistic that a lawyer will actually get through to her that her requests are not legal. Time will tell though. A new offer went out.

For now we are going to enjoy our small wedding, the new chapter of our life, a week away somewhere and the knowledge that it may be almost over.



Awesome news Rockscan! So happy to hear about all the positives for you. Keep your head up - hopefully the legal stuff will be sorted out soon so you can put it behind you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rockscan 07-17-2019 08:47 AM

Im going to need to start thinking of what to do with all the air miles Im collecting buying liquor to get through this...

We got a letter from the exs lawyer yesterday and it is completely obvious that the biggest problem we have is her lawyer is a fucking idiot.

Highlight: tax benefits are considered in the child support tables so you cant subtract them from section 7 expenses.

Yes he said that.

Also: the agreement states the mother can claim tax benefits so they should not be subtracted.

My husband is happy because it means his ex is going to look stupid. Im worried because if they are this dumb then who knows how much further they will fight this.

The good news is that he has dropped all the ridiculous claims she had made for money. It seems she is now a bit closer to reasonable.

rockscan 10-15-2019 10:18 AM

Well it was a holiday weekend which resulted in drama and I think it was handled accordingly but Im still angry.

We still have not heard anything from her lawyer. She has received an offer to settle and a letter advising that her requests are completely unreasonable. Its been two months now.

The drama came from his oldest who is in her 20s and should be more mature but nope. His last convo with her ended abruptly as he refused to sit and listen to her bs fed to her from his ex. True to form, kid believed mom lost the motion because the judge was wrong and mean. Despite this my husband has been trying to salvage any connection. He follows his therapy tools, sets boundaries, changes the subject and is assertive. Unfortunately his kids still believe the lies and play games with him over his refusal to accept the truth.

He tried to schedule some time over the holiday and kid pulled a stunt. He stood up to her and she didnt like that blaming him for the problems and basically saying he should be grateful she is even giving him the time of day. He gave it some thought and called her on her claims and pointed out that their problems are because she chooses to believe lies. It was a straight forward message that simply said if kid wants a healthy relationship she needs to stop regurgitating the lies. She called him crazy and cut off communication.

As you can expect I was really angry. First because he doesnt deserve this, second because there have been veiled comments that allude to him moving on with his life and abandoning them, third because he bends over backwards and still gets kicked in the teeth. A few weeks ago he told me he feels like Im happy he has a shitty relationship with them which resulted in me blasting him for thinking I was doing anything but encouraging a positive and healthy relationship. He knows what he did was right due to his therapy, but sometimes he feels that it is wrong to not take their abuse. Its still a connection is his reasoning.

I was an alienated kid. My childhood sucked. I know what it is like to be brainwashed. I try to balance my knowledge and experience and watching this shit play out. His kids are in their 20s. They are old enough to see through this bs. Instead they are so deep in what they think happened that they blame him for shit that didnt happen AND get angry at him for trying to have a relationship in spite of what they do to him.

Im also angry because its been almost ten years. You would think he would have been able to see the futility of spending his energy on them. He has hobbies, he is happy in our life together, he copes well but every now and then he gets sad about them, emails and gets hurt. No matter what I say or do, or what he has worked through in therapy, he falls back on it. Sometimes he thinks its ok to be abused!

I dont have kids but I have been through difficult family situations where I have had to set hard limits and hold to them. I went years without family contact but was emotionally healthy. Does being a parent really mean self flagellation like this??

We are hitting the three year mark of this court mess with no movement. Its starting to wear on us both.

Tayken 10-15-2019 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 236922)
We got a letter from the exs lawyer yesterday and it is completely obvious that the biggest problem we have is her lawyer is a fucking idiot.

I always say I would rather deal with a crooked lawyer than a stupid one. With a crooked lawyer you can predict what they are going to do. A stupid lawyer is random and you never know what stupid thing they are going to do. :(

iona6656 10-15-2019 10:32 PM

I wonder if part of the tension is that your partner feels and knows that you dont like his kids. And even parents who know their kids are being idiots dont want their children to be disliked. I mean, I dont blame you one bit for how you feel about them.

I was talking to my sister once about why my exs sister supports him so much. I was really annoyed that she just seems to turn a blind eye to the shit he does. Or worse- supports his tantrums and problematic behaviour. The night we split, his sister called my parents as they were on the way to basically help me get the hell out of dodge; after he threatened to kill me and our daughter- and she YELLED at my mom about why cant I just be accommodating and stop making him angry. That I was ruining his life because I forced him to be that way. I asked my sister - how??? How, as an educated and successful woman, could she support her brother being an abusive asshole?? My sister said that his sister is like his mom; and parents will lie to themselves and do anything to try to lessen the blow of who their kids really are- i.e. if theyre not great people. My sister said if her son was doing what my ex did- she would probably have to lie to herself to support him. Because hes her son and she loves him. I wonder if its like that for your husband. Hes trying desperately to view his kids in a different light.

calvinfive 10-15-2019 11:03 PM

As a suggestion, why not you let him deal with his own problems with his kids? I mean, let him to be the one to go to the forums and seek out support.

rockscan 10-16-2019 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvinfive (Post 238851)
As a suggestion, why not you let him deal with his own problems with his kids? I mean, let him to be the one to go to the forums and seek out support.


He is not technologically savvy, doesnt understand forums and gets emotional.

Ive been here for five years asking questions and sharing legal info I have received. Im not about to change that now.

HammerDad 10-16-2019 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 238854)
He is not technologically savvy, doesnt understand forums and gets emotional.

Ive been here for five years asking questions and sharing legal info I have received. Im not about to change that now.

IMO, you are doing fine. With the strides your husband has made in the years, I would say it has been working out.

rockscan 10-16-2019 09:28 AM

Thanks HD. He got another email yesterday and it was pretty cruel. He is able to see how they have been abusing him in the same way his ex did.

Its really sad to see parents treated this way. If we could just get this case over we could finally get on with our lives.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:04 AM.