Ottawa Divorce .com Forums

Ottawa Divorce .com Forums (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/index.php)
-   Financial Issues (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Ex runs home daycare (net income calc for support?) (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21391)

cashcow4ex 10-17-2017 07:46 AM

Ex runs home daycare (net income calc for support?)
 
Good morning,

Synopsis:
Divorced in 2009. 2 children who live with their mother. Been paying table child support since. Currently paying close to $1800 a month.

One of my children has decided they want to live with me. All the changes are pretty much agreed upon with the exception of her income to calculate the offsets for support. My ex runs a home daycare and is stating that she will be using her net income after all deductions for support calculation. Based on this it would take her income from about $55,000 to about $20,000.

I am willing to except deductions which are for the daycare such as food and craft supplies (she doesn't have or keep any receipts) but I don't think she should be allowed to deduct mortgage, utilities, car expenses (5 kids plus her and she drives a compact car) and everything else that a home business can deduct.

I have looked on the CRA website and can not find clear guidelines to refer her to for calculating income when self employed. Also, what should I be asking her for as far as tax documents go so I can get started on calculations at my end?

Any help is appreciated.

rockscan 10-17-2017 07:57 AM

You could try a search of canlii for cases of self employment and deductions. Do these expenses come out of her line 150? If they dont then she should be using her line 150. Its no different than some of the cases of truckers making 200g per year and claiming their income of 20 g because of expenses.

cashcow4ex 10-17-2017 08:00 AM

I will request her NOA and see what her line 150 says. My line 150 has my total income even though I have lots of business expenses so I can only assume hers would too.

I am heading over to peak at that website you suggested now.

mafia007 10-17-2017 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashcow4ex (Post 224358)
I will request her NOA and see what her line 150 says. My line 150 has my total income even though I have lots of business expenses so I can only assume hers would too.

I am heading over to peak at that website you suggested now.

When you are self employed, you cannot use line 150. An analysis must be made to add income and/or to remove expenses that would not be allowed as they are not really considered expenses... such as depreciation, there is no cash out in this matter.

My ex spouse run a daycare as well and I had to impute her a revenue as she was stating making only less than 20K as per line 150 but claiming a gross of over 40K. At time of separation, she always made a gross of over 40K so there was no problem for me to impute her a salary at 32K a year. This was reasonable as she accepted before we went to trial. I am still paying 70% and + for special expenses so her contribution is fair.

Here is a good case on CanLii to impute a revenue for operating a daycare: Philippe v. Bertrand, 2015 ONSC 235 Link: http://canlii.ca/t/gfxvv

Of course you need to do your maths. Make sure you ask for full financial disclosure by requesting the following;
1- Notice of Assessment NOA
2- Income Tax Return T1 General
3- Income Statement for operating a business form T2125

Also, make sure you know what is her education, her expertise field, qualification/experience and where she worked before. Try to find similar job in the area and the expected salary. It's better to show the judge all the options so he can make a decision.

arabian 10-17-2017 10:19 PM

Thank you Mafia007. A business is a business. If one party objects to Line 150 being used then, if properly motioned, court determines whether or not there are business expenses which should or should not be be added back to determine income (for purpose of paying support). Sometimes business expenses are added back and other times they are not.

trinton 10-18-2017 12:25 AM

and many times daycares take cash.. and never claim it to avoid paying tax, meanwhile claiming their morning coffee as a business expense.

go by her revenue. after all, child support is based on before tax revenue.

cashcow4ex 10-18-2017 07:50 AM

That is sort of my thought process too. I am fully prepared to except all costs directly attributed to the daycare however she is not willing to look at any of her expenses stating she is going to calculate her support on her net income.

Why should she get to deduct housing costs, vehicle costs, cell phone costs when those same costs are a fact of life for everybody. If she didn't have the daycare would she be living on the streets and without a vehicle or cell phone...not a chance! I have to maintain a home office, a vehicle and a cellphone to accomplish my job yet those claimed expenses get tossed out the window straight away.

To add a little perspective, this is the same women that requested $150.00 a month for dog support on top of the spousal support and child support she was looking for. She also tried to claim her boyfriends winter tires as a section 7 expense because the kids would from time to time ride in his car. She also was seeking half of what my companies compensation would be to me if I had gotten fired on the date of separation claiming that was an asset incurred during the marriage and that she was entitled to half of it.

arabian 10-18-2017 09:13 AM

During divorce binding arbitration my ex tried to claim all sorts of things but was shot down by the judge. Instead, business operating expenses were carefully established based on years and years of financial documentation. Judge was quite firm that what was claimed at tax time was not a relevant indicator, for self-employed individuals, for determining income for purpose of support. I recall ex's lawyer having to take ex aside and straighten him out. I also recall being quite surprised myself as I thought a payment for a semi-tractor/trailer would be an allowable business expense but it was not as ex was sole-proprietor and the equipment was determined to be his asset (also ex was unable to provide a finance/lease document as he already owned equipment outright and only provided a hand-written note from his sister stating she had lent him the money to borrow the unit). Judge looked closely at non-arms' length business transactions involving his g/f and family.

I should add that, to my knowledge, ex has never been audited by CRA.

cashcow4ex 10-18-2017 09:27 AM

That sounds a little promising. I just hope she actually comes to her senses and realizes that her salary base point is basically line 150 and all business expenses are determined after that point.

I wonder, if she refuses to budge could I make a claim to have my court costs covered by her?

trinton 10-18-2017 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashcow4ex (Post 224405)
this is the same women that requested $150.00 a month for dog support on top of the spousal support and child support she was looking for.

I found her.

http://insider.si.edu/wordpress/wp-c...inal-leech.jpg


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 PM.