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-   -   Tricky section 7? (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22625)

phatkid77 07-16-2019 09:00 AM

Tricky section 7?
 
So I was talking to a friend of mine from years ago who is struggling currently.

Couple have been separated for 2 years almost. No formal agreement in place
He makes $105 she makes $80 thereís two children with shared custody. They got along fine until he got a new GF who also makes $100k and for whatever reason heís now become totally different.

During the school year they do a 2 days a week and every other weekend schedule. But for the summer because he didnít want to continue that (basically because of child care issues and a drive)
They do a week on week off

He enrolled the children in day camps (week long) all summer long on his weeks (basically acting as his daycare) and wants her to pay her proportion of the expenses. Even tho he never asked prior consent just did it?
This is why he does the camps, so someone can watch the children while he works basically. This is why he didnít want them in day care for the summer because their daycare is where they live (40min away) and he doesnít want to drive there daily Iím assuming. Twice a day to boot.
He moved away (30-40min) after they split so I told her itís his responsibility to pick up and drop off.. at some point she agreed to be amicable and meet half way..

Iím curious, if on his WEEKS if she would be required to pay her portion? And should he have asked before enrolling? Because it is clearly for daycare reasons.
I also wonder... is every week in a camp excessive? I think it is. 2-3 summer camps is reasonable in my mind[emoji2369]
I told her thatís a tough call. Even if the kids were still in day care you would be paying your share for that. So either way youíre both paying one way or another heís just being a dick.

I suggested she tell him fine I will help pay for camps on your weeks but I will no longer drive halfway, you can pick up and drop off weekly since you moved away,
So thatís the second question. Can she actually do that?
She says her lawyer is not helpful at all and just says give him whatever he wants itís better than court. Which, obviously anything is better than court. But I feel you should stand your ground if you have to stand on.
Thatís why I told her itís tricky as sec 7 isnít all black and white its very grey

AMY info and links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Phats


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Janus 07-16-2019 09:28 AM

Daycare (or camp) for employment purposes is clearly a section 7 expense.

phatkid77 07-16-2019 09:37 AM

Yeah. Thatís what I said. Itís the same either way. Heís just saving himself the drive in the summers.

How about whoís responsibility it is to pick up an drop off for the parent that moved?

Thanks


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Janus 07-16-2019 09:40 AM

I always suggest that people put a specific meeting location (eg. the Superstore at Dundas and whatever) as the transfer location in their separation agreement. That way, if one parent decides to move away, that parent is stuck doing the epic drive, which is the fair way to split it.

Unfortunately, if the agreement says something along the lines of "child will be picked up from house" then the non-moving parent could be stuck.

Selfrepmom 07-16-2019 09:47 AM

This IS actually a pretty black and white situation. There really isnít a ďgreyĒ area when it comes to daycare/summer camp qualifying as s7. As long as they are in it because the parent is working or going to school then itís s7.

Your friend and her ex have established 2 years of shared parenting status quo.

Your friend agreed to a week on/week off summer schedule.
Your friend is responsible for child care on her weeks. The ex has no say on who cares for them. The ex must contribute his proportionate share to this.

The ex is responsible for childcare on his weeks. Your friend has no say on who cares for them. Your friend must contribute her proportionate share to this. If it is a basic summer camp then the cost will be reasonable and justified. If he signed them up for horseback riding summer camp where the queen of England comes to teach them etiquette over lunch then your friend might be able to argue that the cost is excessive.

If your friend signed the kids up for full time daycare and is now stuck paying for the weeks the kids arenít there, that is her problem. Unless the ex agreed in writing that the kids would go there on his weeks, and then waited til she had committed to that day care and then signed them up for summer camp behind her back.

Summer camp is not excessive. It is a necessary form of care that allows parents to work. A lot of areas donít have ďdaycare ď for kids 5-12 and that is the only option.

Tell your friend to get a formal agreement in writing

Tell your friend that how much money the new gf makes has zip to do with zilch

phatkid77 07-16-2019 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus (Post 236879)
I always suggest that people put a specific meeting location (eg. the Superstore at Dundas and whatever) as the transfer location in their separation agreement. That way, if one parent decides to move away, that parent is stuck doing the epic drive, which is the fair way to split it.



Unfortunately, if the agreement says something along the lines of "child will be picked up from house" then the non-moving parent could be stuck.



Great suggestion as always. Unfortunately he already moved.. lol


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phatkid77 07-16-2019 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selfrepmom (Post 236880)
This IS actually a pretty black and white situation. There really isnít a ďgreyĒ area when it comes to daycare/summer camp qualifying as s7. As long as they are in it because the parent is working or going to school then itís s7.



Your friend and her ex have established 2 years of shared parenting status quo.



Your friend agreed to a week on/week off summer schedule.

Your friend is responsible for child care on her weeks. The ex has no say on who cares for them. The ex must contribute his proportionate share to this.



The ex is responsible for childcare on his weeks. Your friend has no say on who cares for them. Your friend must contribute her proportionate share to this. If it is a basic summer camp then the cost will be reasonable and justified. If he signed them up for horseback riding summer camp where the queen of England comes to teach them etiquette over lunch then your friend might be able to argue that the cost is excessive.



If your friend signed the kids up for full time daycare and is now stuck paying for the weeks the kids arenít there, that is her problem. Unless the ex agreed in writing that the kids would go there on his weeks, and then waited til she had committed to that day care and then signed them up for summer camp behind her back.



Summer camp is not excessive. It is a necessary form of care that allows parents to work. A lot of areas donít have ďdaycare ď for kids 5-12 and that is the only option.



Tell your friend to get a formal agreement in writing



Tell your friend that how much money the new gf makes has zip to do with zilch



Thanks.
Yeah. Told her all of that and she knows. She just feels defeated because when she agrees to something. Something new seems to come up for her to compromise.



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Selfrepmom 07-16-2019 09:58 AM

As for driving, if she has already agreed to do half the driving, and has been doing it for a while now, then it would probably look pretty bad on her if she were to just completely refuse to continue. Especially if it is as punishment for him taking the kids to summer camp.

She should have stood her ground when he moved originally. Unfortunately now she is most likely stuck with driving out for either the pick up or drop off.

Let this be a lesson for her to hurry up and go get a detailed formal agreement.

phatkid77 07-16-2019 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selfrepmom (Post 236885)
As for driving, if she has already agreed to do half the driving, and has been doing it for a while now, then it would probably look pretty bad on her if she were to just completely refuse to continue. Especially if it is as punishment for him taking the kids to summer camp.



She should have stood her ground when he moved originally. Unfortunately now she is most likely stuck with driving out for either the pick up or drop off.



Let this be a lesson for her to hurry up and go get a detailed formal agreement.



Yeah. They are going to mediation.
I said May as well give that a try at this point. But definitely want something concrete written.



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