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-   -   Can ex be compelled to switch careers? (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23464)

350 Mag 01-27-2021 01:22 PM

Can ex be compelled to switch careers?
 
My soon to be ex quit a Govt job 18 years ago. A job that would now pay around $75,000 per year vs the $37,000 she is making as a Secretary.

Is it a long shot to have court suggest she return to her old job?

Or can she make as little as she wants and continue to get max support payments.

Also.

If she enters common law relationship or re married will court grant order to stop support payments?

Janus 01-27-2021 01:52 PM

Are you suggesting that she should or can just step back into a job that she left almost two decades ago?

As a couple, you guys both agreed that she should quit her job. Now, you both get to suffer the consequences.

As for the second question, it depends on why she quit the job. I'm going to guess that she quit the job in order to raise your children. The money you pay her is to compensate her for her lost income opportunities. If she repartners, that would be completely irrelevant.

Alpinist 01-27-2021 02:53 PM

350mag are you asking about spousal or child support? I don't believe cohabitation or remarriage affects child support payments at all.

Kinso 01-27-2021 03:52 PM

Quote:

Is it a long shot to have court suggest she return to her old job?
Yes. An incredible long shot.

350 Mag 01-27-2021 05:21 PM

I did not want her to quit her job....she refused.

We had a nice home in a stable market we ended up moving to where I work which is now becoming unstable.

This is all in regards to spousal support(alimony).

Are you saying if she marries again and the guy is well off or rich I still have to pay her support every month?

The kids are staying with me.

ifonlyihadknown 01-28-2021 12:04 PM

Ah, yes, the old "you agreed as a couple" justification for being forced to pay for an ex-spouse who spent years slacking off and wants to continue to do so after the marriage ends.

If you ask you spouse to go back to work, for example after the kids start school, and they say, "no thanks, I'm good." What are you supposed to do? Poke them with a cattle prod every morning to get them to look for a job and go to work?

IMO, it's a case of putting all the responsibility for one spouse and none for the other.

Janus 01-28-2021 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifonlyihadknown (Post 245082)
If you ask you spouse to go back to work, for example after the kids start school, and they say, "no thanks, I'm good." What are you supposed to do?

Marriage is essentially a business partnership. If your partner is not living up to their end of the deal, then you dissolve the partnership.

If your spouse has been working until a month before you initiate divorce proceedings, I almost guarantee you won't be paying any spousal support.

350 Mag 01-28-2021 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifonlyihadknown (Post 245082)
Ah, yes, the old "you agreed as a couple" justification for being forced to pay for an ex-spouse who spent years slacking off and wants to continue to do so after the marriage ends.

If you ask you spouse to go back to work, for example after the kids start school, and they say, "no thanks, I'm good." What are you supposed to do? Poke them with a cattle prod every morning to get them to look for a job and go to work?

IMO, it's a case of putting all the responsibility for one spouse and none for the other.


Had she kept her Govt Job....or went back and 1 kid could have been babysat or daycare.

She would be making $80k/year vs $37,000.

That job would have been a $800,000 pension indexed...by now...

She will probably go after my pension.

She has a college degree and is working as a secretary ???

I told her maybe she should call her old boss ...but she likes having Summers off and lots of spare time for leisure activities.

It's not fair as I work 12 hour shifts.....for 25+ years now supporting the whole household.

She needs to step up and get a better job....her current job is beneath want she is capable of.

In the same vein I could take a job pumping gas or working at Walmart.....BUT not allowed To do that.

I only want a fair deal for both of us.

rockscan 01-28-2021 09:24 PM

You were complacent for 25 years. Something about your relationship led her to believe she didnt have to work.


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Alpinist 01-28-2021 09:35 PM

If she's been making 37,000 for the past 18 years that's what they're going to be looking at as status quo.

350 Mag 01-28-2021 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist (Post 245089)
If she's been making 37,000 for the past 18 years that's what they're going to be looking at as status quo.

No she left work in 2002.

Went back to work part time 2013.

She is almost full time now....but has 7 weeks off in Summer.

Ya I was complacent....BUT IF men complain they are azzholes....

LovingDad1234 01-29-2021 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350 Mag (Post 245087)
I told her maybe she should call her old boss

You want your ex to contact her old boss from 18 years ago? Your ex's job likely got filled 18 years ago. Workplaces hire based on filling a vacancy, not to help resolve a conflict in figuring out the details of separation.

The best that your ex's old boss can do (that is if they still work there) is to say to keep eyes open for job openings and apply like everyone else.

I would drop this argument you are making. Posed to a lawyer, would be a waste of your money. Posed in court, would make you look foolish.

ifonlyihadknown 01-29-2021 09:38 AM

350 Mag,

The system is rigged.
Any good deed will be punished.
This line of argument will get you nothing.

On the other hand, have you heard of the "Rule of 65"? If you STBX's age plus the number of years you've been married add up to 65 or more, you could be on the hook for "indefinite" spousal support. Yes, it is as bad as it sounds. Hope, for your sake, it doesn't apply.

350 Mag 01-29-2021 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovingDad1234 (Post 245093)
You want your ex to contact her old boss from 18 years ago? Your ex's job likely got filled 18 years ago. Workplaces hire based on filling a vacancy, not to help resolve a conflict in figuring out the details of separation.

The best that your ex's old boss can do (that is if they still work there) is to say to keep eyes open for job openings and apply like everyone else.

I would drop this argument you are making. Posed to a lawyer, would be a waste of your money. Posed in court, would make you look foolish.


Well....I guess IF she isn't willing to compromise....I will get "stressed" and have to take medical leave....

And possible end up with a minimum wage job?

That could very well happen.

Then she gets "0".

LovingDad1234 01-29-2021 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350 Mag (Post 245095)
Well....I guess IF she isn't willing to compromise....I will get "stressed" and have to take medical leave....

And possible end up with a minimum wage job?

That could very well happen.

Then she gets "0".

It has nothing to do with compromise. Workplaces have hiring practices and there needs to be a vacancy or position to fill. Your ex is welcome to apply to any job hiring postings out there, if she so chooses, but by is no means obligated at all. To ask her to contact her boss from 18 years ago isn't clear thinking, and is actually quite ridiculous (sorry).

On the flip side, for you to purposefully quit your job and purposefully make less money to shirk your financial obligations will look terribly against you. That is precisely why courts impute incomes. Would you rather be paying $X in supports on your current salary, or paying the same $X in supports while making significantly (and purposefully) less?

It is evident you are grieving the loss of your wife and marriage, which is perfectly normal....you may wish to seek speaking with a therapist to ensure clear thinking through this difficult process.

Janus 01-29-2021 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350 Mag (Post 245095)
Well....I guess IF she isn't willing to compromise....I will get "stressed" and have to take medical leave....

And possible end up with a minimum wage job?

That could very well happen.

Then she gets "0".

Actually, they will impute income to you. Her income will be unaffected, you will still have to pay her the same amount. You will just have much less.

You aren't the first support payor to have the bright idea of reducing their income as revenge :).

350 Mag 01-29-2021 01:47 PM

So basically ....

I will be lucky to come away with the clothes on my backside....and she will be with another guy.

Marriage is the ultimate SCAM!

rockscan 01-29-2021 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350 Mag (Post 245099)
So basically ....

I will be lucky to come away with the clothes on my backside....and she will be with another guy.

Marriage is the ultimate SCAM!


Wait a second. You had what, 20 years with a woman who gave you two kids, cared for your home and kids and gave you companionship. For whatever reason she fell out of love with you and wanted out. Making that decision was not easy.

You now have the opportunity to agree mutually on a financial way forward depending on the status of your income and what you built. Up until a day ago you were yammering on about how you wanted her to be happy and you loved her so much.

Marriage involves two people and you are both guilty for its failure and what went into it.


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350 Mag 01-29-2021 04:11 PM

1) I BEGGED and PLEADED with her to keep her job.

2) We had a NICE home. Because we were making combined 120,000

3). She insisted she didn't care IF we made less money or had as nice house. She just wanted to be together as a family

We argued for a whole year about her quitting her job....I told her I was NOT happy at my job....and would look for work closer to our home.

4) In the end we moved away from friends, family, and ended up in a community far away from ANY support. We had no babysitter(parents or relatives) so we were always stuck with the kids and didn't get out much.

5) I struggled at work and with the pressure of being the number 1 provider so I was stressed out alot of the time. As I told her I did not enjoy my job.

6) She was not happy with our home. She complained constantly our house wasn't nice enough, we didn't have large savings, or rental properties like her sister....Who had a 70,000 /year job and her husband made 150,000/ year.

7) So after 17 years or so living here she decides she doesn't love me anymore?

So if I take home $2700 / 2weeks.

And the courts award her $2500/month.

Who wins and loses.

She has a college degree.....but chooses NOT to pursue a better paying Job?

The idea of spousal support is to compensate her for leaving her career to raise a family and to maintain her standard of living.

IF higher paying job is available is it unreasonable to ask her to expand her horizons?

I do love my wife very much, she is leaving, breaking up a family.....I and giving her $1500/ month....because I am keeping the 2 kids with me 90% of the time.

I feel worthless....and to add insult to injury I am still the "meal ticket".

All I want is a fair deal.....and for her to seek a better job?

She has education she should use it OR at least try ???

ifonlyihadknown 01-31-2021 12:50 PM

350 Mag,

Family court is the scam. Listen to rockscan since that is the point of view that family courts operate under. Janus also offers words of wisdom.

It's assumed that only your STBX contributed to the marriage and now must be compensated. Any contributions you made are ignored.

Any decision made by your STBX, you are assumed to have agreed with, even if you didn't and had no way of forcing her.

The marriage will end, your STBX will be free to live here life, and possibly be supported for life. You will be an indentured servant, forced to continue to provide for them even though the marriage is supposed to be over. Your responsibilities will continue. Your STBX has none and doesn't even have to try and support themselves. Why would they when they've won the "cash for life" lottery?


Getting married has become the riskiest financial gamble you can take. As Janus mentioned, the only prudent (and cold blooded) thing to do would have been to get divorced the minute your STBX decided not to go back to work.

Tayken 01-31-2021 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus (Post 245083)
If your spouse has been working until a month before you initiate divorce proceedings, I almost guarantee you won't be paying any spousal support.

Correct. Many divorces happen after the birth of a child and 1 year of maternity leave is up and that parent has to return to work and doesn't want to. If anyone finds themselves in that situation a judge will not order spousal support. See it all the time in the court.

But, if you wait 6 months after the date they should have returned to work... Good luck. That is when stuff gets ugly.

Tayken 01-31-2021 07:22 PM

Hey 350 Mag do you own a Mercury Mercruiser? Just noticed your handle is "350 Mag".

350 Mag 02-01-2021 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifonlyihadknown (Post 245115)
350 Mag,

Family court is the scam. Listen to rockscan since that is the point of view that family courts operate under. Janus also offers words of wisdom.

It's assumed that only your STBX contributed to the marriage and now must be compensated. Any contributions you made are ignored.

Any decision made by your STBX, you are assumed to have agreed with, even if you didn't and had no way of forcing her.

The marriage will end, your STBX will be free to live here life, and possibly be supported for life. You will be an indentured servant, forced to continue to provide for them even though the marriage is supposed to be over. Your responsibilities will continue. Your STBX has none and doesn't even have to try and support themselves. Why would they when they've won the "cash for life" lottery?


Getting married has become the riskiest financial gamble you can take. As Janus mentioned, the only prudent (and cold blooded) thing to do would have been to get divorced the minute your STBX decided not to go back to work.


Well....

I can pension off in 9 years.

Then my income drops to $50k -60K /year?

She has higher pension value than me right now so I am getting a Seperation Agreement that we are leaving each other's pensions alone.

She won't lose on CPP because she was maxed out for 4 years before she left to raise family.....they don't penalize you for that? Or has that changed?

She has also agreed to put in writing that if she enters a common law or gets remarried to stop spousal support.

That should significantly reduce my obligations when I turn 59.

Cross my fingers she meets a guy she likes and remarries....then I am done paying.

??????

rockscan 02-01-2021 12:06 PM

You will have to do a financial statement and figure out the asset split. You are staying in the house and she is entitled to a portion of it. You can also work out some sort of settlement where you have a step down as your income changes. Seeing a lawyer will help.


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LovingDad1234 02-01-2021 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 245124)
Seeing a lawyer will help.

Yes, speaking with a lawyer will help.

But it is strongly recommended for 350Mag to speak with a therapist or separation coach as soon as possible to avoid going on tangents with lawyers about how he feels what is transpiring or will transpire is unfair. The lawyer will gladly listen, even schedule further meetings, and next thing you know 350Mag will get sent a $2500 invoice for a few meetings where it was a one-way conversation with nothing to show for it....

350 Mag 02-01-2021 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovingDad1234 (Post 245126)
Yes, speaking with a lawyer will help.

But it is strongly recommended for 350Mag to speak with a therapist or separation coach as soon as possible to avoid going on tangents with lawyers about how he feels what is transpiring or will transpire is unfair. The lawyer will gladly listen, even schedule further meetings, and next thing you know 350Mag will get sent a $2500 invoice for a few meetings where it was a one-way conversation with nothing to show for it....

I ain't gonna waste my time bitching anymore.

It's done.

I got 28.5 years with her.

We are going to be able to hammer out a deal....

She isn't greedy, neither am I.

Now can she be persuaded to go for more by friends, family or lawyer.

Absolutely.

That's why I haven't yelled at, got angry, and have kept it civil.

We both want to do right by our kids

The kids are with me.

We used a Family Law spousal support calculator.

Agreed on an amount.

She is happy...


We are going to sit down with a mediator with all our finances in 2 months

I said I will pay for our youngest post secondary when that comes, IF she stays committed to the amounts we agreed on.

I don't have a problem paying for the education because I would be regardless IF we were still together or not.

If she wants more per month she will have to help pay for education.

She understands that until we get a court order that I cannot claim Spousal support for tax.....and she is getting tax free money

As far as the house, me and the kids are in it for at least 1.5-2 years .

I am going to be responsible for maintaining small stuff, taxes and Insurance to offset what she pays in rent for her place

I said IF she ends up living in house she will get the same amount of time with same deal.

We are hoping to just sell it in 2 years and split 50/50.

As far as all other assets...50/50.

Pensions will be addressed through mediator.

She realizes she has more "credits" than me....


We will be fine....

1 day at a time....

She hurt me....but I hurt her first.

No one is innocent and we are both to blame for the breakdown in the marriage

canthisberight 02-03-2021 04:39 PM

If she gets married or cohabits again...you are off the hook...if the seperation is written like that.
Mine says if my ex husband resides with someone for 9 months, or remarries, I am done paying!!
Praying he meets someone..oops

Janus 02-03-2021 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tayken (Post 245120)
Correct. Many divorces happen after the birth of a child and 1 year of maternity leave is up and that parent has to return to work and doesn't want to. If anyone finds themselves in that situation a judge will not order spousal support. See it all the time in the court.

But, if you wait 6 months after the date they should have returned to work... Good luck. That is when stuff gets ugly.

I wish more people were aware of this.

If your spouse is saying that they do not want to go back to work, this is an incredibly dangerous situation. You are at the threshold of losing everything.

I remember my ex said she did not want to go back to work. I laughed and told her that I'd be more than happy to stay home if she felt a child would do better with a parent at home. Needless to say, she rapidly decided that daycare was a reasonable option.

In retrospect, that was one of the most important decisions I ever made in my life. To me it was just an equity thing, it didn't make sense for only one of us to be working. Somehow, that forced me onto the right path.

rockscan 02-03-2021 06:31 PM

Personally, as a woman, I dont know how anyone would WANT to stay home. I love kids but adults who act like children are much more stimulating on a daily basis.


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350 Mag 02-04-2021 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus (Post 245194)
I wish more people were aware of this.

If your spouse is saying that they do not want to go back to work, this is an incredibly dangerous situation. You are at the threshold of losing everything.

I remember my ex said she did not want to go back to work. I laughed and told her that I'd be more than happy to stay home if she felt a child would do better with a parent at home. Needless to say, she rapidly decided that daycare was a reasonable option.

In retrospect, that was one of the most important decisions I ever made in my life. To me it was just an equity thing, it didn't make sense for only one of us to be working. Somehow, that forced me onto the right path.

Interesting,

In my situation wouldn't have made much sense. That was the last thing I would have been thinking.


Maybe I am too traditional, maybe when I promised I do...forever I actually believed it.

I got married to hopefully have a loving family, grow old, retire and see our grandkids grow up.

I still get to do that but we won't be together.

Taking it 1 day at a time....


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