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-   -   Are fathers automatically seen as abusers or sexual predators? (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20526)

florio 11-14-2016 10:24 PM

Are fathers automatically seen as abusers or sexual predators?
 
My grown up daughters didn't talk to me for the past few years, and I went to a family therapist. With no info on the situation whatsoever, he insisted from start to see me first, then the girls, and keep everything we discuss confidential from each other. Which doesn't make sense to me, as long as I was hopping for the opposite: to find as much as possible about the reasons why we had this huge communication problem. I told him I have nothing to hide from my girls.

The only reason I can see here - which is also very offending to me, not just as victim, but as the idiot who pays the bills - is the suspicion of a sexual or physical violence abuser. Are there really so many fathers who abuse their daughters, to start your counselling sessions with this horrific approach?

If it's not this, than what? My therapist was not able to say anything when I asked him how could we measure the progress in this therapy after let's say three paid sessions.

blinkandimgone 11-15-2016 02:21 AM

Your daughters are grown ups. They are entitled to have their private discussions with someone they feel comfortable and trust. Obviously not you, which is why you are at counselling.

Perhaps instead of over analyzing the situation until you manufacture a potential reason, speak to the counselor about how these things normally progress, do some research on the process or even watch an episode of Dr.Phil. You'll see it is not at all uncommon practise to speak to the family members seperately.

If you are expecting some kind of magic to happen after three episodes...er... sessions, then save your money and quit now. These things take time. A lot of time. And the more you put a timeline on your expectations of things being 'fixed" by, the longer it will take.

I can see not much has changed with your approach in the last 6 years.

Good luck with counseling

florio 11-15-2016 03:33 AM

wow, thanks for the welcome back, you "moderator" :)

things went actually back and forth, but I'll get over the fact you assume the worst without knowing or at least asking for more facts. I'm in fact back living together with my wife, btw.

I'm not forced into this counseling, as you implied, I actually looked and paid for it because I'm apparently the only human being here who actually cares.

But, moving over this rude welcome back and nonsense speculations, is there any other DECENT and RATIONAL feedback (not personal attacks) I can hope for on your forum? I mean, on other forums I got some interesting great replies and many people acknowledged these social services could be indeed biased.

And ps: issues debated by decent people with decent approached should not take a lot of time and money, what is this nonsense? this is what lawyers say when they want to ripp you off.

rockscan 11-15-2016 08:12 AM

Your post struck me more that youre a control freak wanting to make them love you. They have their reasons for not wanting to speak to you and you are failing to respect that. A medical professional is approaching it with some sensitivity to give them a safe place to speak about their feelings and work through their issues. They are attending counseling which is an excellent first step. Maybe give it some time and stop pressuring for what you want immediately. If you start trying to make people do what you want youre only going to be disappointed. Relax and let the therapist do their job.

FightingForFamily 11-15-2016 09:36 AM

In a word, yes. Most social services, CAS, custody evaluators are starting with a bias against men.

In some cases as serious as assuming their involvement with the family is due to child or sexual abuse. I remember coming in to answer some questions and confirm my girlfriend's version of events and suddenly the door closes and the interrogation begins assuming I had done something. Everything I did from helping with house work to attending play dates with the children was rephrased by the investigators as a way for me to gain access to victims.

It was disgusting, vile and insulting. Good luck with counselling... just hope they don't try to "find" suppressed memories of abuse by inventing it all.

Janus 11-15-2016 10:05 AM

Counseling is supposed to be a safe place. If you have not spoken with your daughters for years, then being with you is not a safe place. To be clear, safe doesn't mean "we think that florio is going to rape his daughters once he gets into the same room", rather it is more along the lines of "they haven't talked to their dad for years, lets make the daughters comfortable first".

Frankly, the fact that they are even willing to go to counseling is fantastic. It means that they are open to changing the situation. Many parents who have been cut out of the lives of their children don't get a chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by florio (Post 214300)
I told him I have nothing to hide from my girls.

That is not why you are being excluded. I would be uncomfortable being stuck in a room with a friend I had not spoken to in six years, let alone a father. This isn't about you. You need to check your ego.

Quote:

If it's not this, than what? My therapist was not able to say anything when I asked him how could we measure the progress in this therapy after let's say three paid sessions.
Three sessions is nothing. You are probably looking at six months to a year at least.

Now, my observations:

  1. You call yourself a victim
  2. You expect immediate results
  3. You were unreasonably hostile to blink
I think the therapy will be a failure and that your daughters will never talk to you again. You strike me as somebody who will never take responsibility for his own actions and who is trying to control his grown daughters. I think you should save your money, and use it to treat yourself to some vacations.

blinkandimgone 11-15-2016 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by florio (Post 214309)
wow, thanks for the welcome back, you "moderator" :)

things went actually back and forth, but I'll get over the fact you assume the worst without knowing or at least asking for more facts. I'm in fact back living together with my wife, btw.

No idea what "things" you're referring to, however congratulations on being back with your wife. It seems odd that you are back on a divorce forum....? If your referring to my pointing out that your attitude and approach hasn't changed, judging by your initial post and this one, it hasn't.

Quote:

I'm not forced into this counseling, as you implied, I actually looked and paid for it because I'm apparently the only human being here who actually cares.
Where did anyone imply you were forced into anything...?

Quote:

But, moving over this rude welcome back and nonsense speculations, is there any other DECENT and RATIONAL feedback (not personal attacks) I can hope for on your forum? I mean, on other forums I got some interesting great replies and many people acknowledged these social services could be indeed biased.
The irony of this ^^ is absolutely astounding given the wild, irrational speculation that you used to start this thread.

Quote:

And ps: issues debated by decent people with decent approached should not take a lot of time and money, what is this nonsense? this is what lawyers say when they want to ripp you off.
What issues debated where? If you're referring to counseling, counseling is not intended to be a debate where you attempt to convince the other participants to come around to your way of thinking and see your side. It *IS* intended to be an opportunity for YOU to learn to see and understand your daughter's perspectives and feelings and start the healing process.

florio 11-15-2016 03:24 PM

my last post and I'm done. And this is only because I found one honorable exception (thanks, FightingForFamily) out of the pack of wolfs.

The rest of you honestly need... therapy. Look for "anger management" and "daddy issues". And learn about "personal attacks", "harassment" and making silly and dumb assumption just to insult an OP based on fabricated "facts".

Done and, yes, I expect way more escalated attacks now, out of frustration. More hmm nicks will show up, for sure :)) Leave them here, for posterity :)

rockscan 11-15-2016 03:44 PM

Out of curiosity, if you didnt expect the truth, why would you come to an anonymous forum?

Your post pretty much sums up why your daughters wont speak to you. As a daughter myself I would tell my father to get bent repeatedly if he acted the way you do. I read your previous posts about your divorce, you treated your kids worse than gum on the bottom of your shoe. Youre lucky they agreed to a counselor. The counselor was treating you like an emotionally abusive parent. If the glass slipper fits...

Rioe 11-15-2016 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by florio (Post 214300)
My grown up daughters didn't talk to me for the past few years, and I went to a family therapist. With no info on the situation whatsoever, he insisted from start to see me first, then the girls, and keep everything we discuss confidential from each other. Which doesn't make sense to me, as long as I was hopping for the opposite: to find as much as possible about the reasons why we had this huge communication problem. I told him I have nothing to hide from my girls.

The only reason I can see here - which is also very offending to me, not just as victim, but as the idiot who pays the bills - is the suspicion of a sexual or physical violence abuser. Are there really so many fathers who abuse their daughters, to start your counselling sessions with this horrific approach?

If it's not this, than what? My therapist was not able to say anything when I asked him how could we measure the progress in this therapy after let's say three paid sessions.

I'm going to reply anyway, because in my experience, people who vocally flounce off in a huff usually come back to lurk, at minimum. It may also help someone else new to the forum in the future.

It's quite standard for counselling that involves more than one person to have individual sessions with the psychologist before gathering them all together. This lets each person have solo time with the counsellor to share their history and perspective on the issues to be addressed, without being interrupted or judged. There are no accusations on the part of the counsellor, it is merely independent information gathering.

For example, the counsellor is going to ask you "what brings you here" "what do you hope to address" and "what do you think caused the situation" sort of questions. And then ask each of your children similar questions, to get each perspective. The counsellor may form an idea of the truth lying somewhere between each opinion, but won't say that. Instead the counsellor will later encourage the participants to reach conclusions on their own. The counsellor is forming opinions of each person's personality style, and designing future counselling sessions to account for those personalities. The counsellor may also be making mental notes on books to recommend to each participant.

Anything discussed with a counsellor is confidential. In future joint sessions, the counsellor is still not going to discuss what happened in the private sessions, but only use it to maybe direct focus later. It's up to the individual to decide if they want to repeat anything later in front of the other people.


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