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-   -   Publicly shaming Fathers (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23586)

iona6656 09-10-2021 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleanSlate (Post 247335)
He isn't wrong.
It pays very little more to actually work in many cases. Here is a nice one.

-legal aid for those that don't work but get 1/2 of the assets and child support while the working parent gets no help. How is that fair?


Please don't say you are laughing at him.

He said "women need to start paying their dues" and he's tired of carrying them. Not only is that wrong- but it's utterly laughable. If this pandemic has shown us anything is that the work that women, and more specifically mothers do is highly UNDERVALUED.

He sounds like a bitter MGTOW dude. Yes, I am laughing AT him. He wanted to start a website of deadbeat moms. Every post I've seen from him is a gross, and contemptible, generalization of women in separation proceedings.

cleanSlate 09-10-2021 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iona6656 (Post 247337)
He said "women need to start paying their dues" and he's tired of carrying them. Not only is that wrong- but it's utterly laughable. If this pandemic has shown us anything is that the work that women, and more specifically mothers do is highly UNDERVALUED.

He sounds like a bitter MGTOW dude. Yes, I am laughing AT him. He wanted to start a website of deadbeat moms. Every post I've seen from him is a gross, and contemptible, generalization of women in separation proceedings.

I see him as generalizing for the sake of simplicity.
Maybe it isn't catchy but what is the female counterpart to "deadbeat dad"?


Quote:

"If this pandemic has shown us anything is that the work that women, and more specifically mothers do is highly UNDERVALUED. "
LOL who is being sexist now?

I am a guy and care for my kids more than 1/2 the time AND I work; my kids did online school at my place not hers.

The ex spends time with her friends, less than 1/2 time with kids and didn't work even though there was plenty available to her, paid at $0 on child support;

What term should be used for her?

respondent 07-24-2022 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 246274)
Shaming parents who don�t pay support? I agree to that. Especially since they give parents who do pay support a bad name.

You obviously had a set back in your case as you tend to poke your head up whenever you want to bang your drum about �inequality�.

I commend FRO for posting that stuff. Too bad they can�t imprison them and make them work off their debt. Shame on them for avoiding their responsibilities!

And I say all this as a child of a deadbeat who hid in northern Ontario working for cash to avoid paying support. We had to resort to social assistance due to the lack of support and also do the leg work to try and root him out.

I haven't dealt with FRO personally, but there are number of true life stories with sad end about this horrible organization.
Paul Donovan - truck driver, paid support since 1996. In 2010 (14 years after not missing a single payment) he missed two payments because industry had downturn (this happens, right)? FRO suspended his driver's license and refused to reinstate it before he pays back, yet he didn't have way earning it back without the license. Instead FRO demanded 10,000 or 6 months in prison, and judge when he explained he can't earn without license told him "she couldn't help". He ended his life on train tracks.
Andrew T. Renouf - went out of this world after FRO garnished 100% of his income, leaving him 43 cents in the account. Food and Shelter office refused to help, because by "officially" he was employed.

These are just first two links in google.

How common the story that man pays support for decades, and mother brainwashes child "your dad doesn't pay for your support a dime"? It happens way more often than it seems. But judges don't even consider this as an issue.

When father's income drops, judge imputes it. But when mother earns in cash tons of money under the table, judge closes the eyes with a very rare exception, and often dad can't afford the lawyer to bring the motion, as he pays support, but mother can. The system is extremely gender biased.

The problem with publicly shaming fathers... Well, it isn't in "best interest of child" as they so much like to say.
Firstly, child likely shares same last name as father. Secondly, despite what mom tells, child may still love father, he pays support or not. Thirdly, by publicly panishing in many cases you reduce father's ability to earn money, as it makes him less hirable, and thus reduces his abilities paying the support.

rockscan 07-24-2022 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by respondent (Post 251314)
I haven't dealt with FRO personally, but there are number of true life stories with sad end about this horrible organization.
Paul Donovan - truck driver, paid support since 1996. In 2010 (14 years after not missing a single payment) he missed two payments because industry had downturn (this happens, right)? FRO suspended his driver's license and refused to reinstate it before he pays back, yet he didn't have way earning it back without the license. Instead FRO demanded 10,000 or 6 months in prison, and judge when he explained he can't earn without license told him "she couldn't help". He ended his life on train tracks.
Andrew T. Renouf - went out of this world after FRO garnished 100% of his income, leaving him 43 cents in the account. Food and Shelter office refused to help, because by "officially" he was employed.

These are just first two links in google.

How common the story that man pays support for decades, and mother brainwashes child "your dad doesn't pay for your support a dime"? It happens way more often than it seems. But judges don't even consider this as an issue.

When father's income drops, judge imputes it. But when mother earns in cash tons of money under the table, judge closes the eyes with a very rare exception, and often dad can't afford the lawyer to bring the motion, as he pays support, but mother can. The system is extremely gender biased.

The problem with publicly shaming fathers... Well, it isn't in "best interest of child" as they so much like to say.
Firstly, child likely shares same last name as father. Secondly, despite what mom tells, child may still love father, he pays support or not. Thirdly, by publicly panishing in many cases you reduce father's ability to earn money, as it makes him less hirable, and thus reduces his abilities paying the support.


Go and look at the cases of the most wanted on FRO. None of those cases are ones like you note. The publicly shamed fathers are the ones who have deserted their kids and never paid a dime.

Not the same situation.

respondent 07-24-2022 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 251315)
Go and look at the cases of the most wanted on FRO. None of those cases are ones like you note. The publicly shamed fathers are the ones who have deserted their kids and never paid a dime.

Not the same situation.

Or they could decide to disappear because FRO and the court system makes their life's so hopeless that suicide becomes an only alternative.

If system wasn't so unfair, I think we wouldn't see so many cases when parent disappears.

rockscan 07-24-2022 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by respondent (Post 251316)
Or they could decide to disappear because FRO and the court system makes their life's so hopeless that suicide becomes an only alternative.

If system wasn't so unfair, I think we wouldn't see so many cases when parent disappears.


You still arent getting it.

I was a child of someone who refused to pay support and took off working under the table. You have no idea what that does to a child or family. FRO was built because of kids like me. The fathers who are being shamed should be. Do a google search of dads who were caught and you will see just how terrible they are.

Not to mention those deadbeats make it difficult for all the other good paying parents. My husband is with FRO and it is not a problem or an inconvenience.

respondent 07-24-2022 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 251317)
You still aren�t getting it.

I was a child of someone who refused to pay support and took off working under the table. You have no idea what that does to a child or family. FRO was built because of kids like me. The fathers who are being shamed should be. Do a google search of dads who were caught and you will see just how terrible they are.

Not to mention those deadbeats make it difficult for all the other good paying parents. My husband is with FRO and it is not a problem or an inconvenience.

Roughly half of my friends going through a divorce have an "ex" who brainwashes the child that father doesn't pay child support, despite every single one does pay it in full. And guess what? Court doesn't care about it.

Despite idea of child support is great, it very often goes against children. Many fathers would love to raise their children equally. And many mothers would allow that as having two parents better than one, but in many cases desire of getting that table amount starts the litigation and stupid claims in court for years "he is bad parent". Does it benefit children that their parents litigate for 3-5 years over the custody until their life savings run out? They don't have life with either of parents.

I didn't leave my children, but I could easily see how someone with less money would have no choice. The system is broken. If all separations were starting with automatic equal parenting, and it was mother/father responsibility to prove need for different arrangements, it would've be completely different case.

It would also help if child support money could only be spent on kids and on nothing else.

rockscan 07-24-2022 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by respondent (Post 251318)
Roughly half of my friends going through a divorce have an "ex" who brainwashes the child that father doesn't pay child support, despite every single one does pay it in full. And guess what? Court doesn't care about it.

So because of your handful of friends we shouldnt go after people who arent doing anything about their kids? Because of a small few bad mothers we as a society shouldnt expect other parents to take responsibility?

Quote:

Despite idea of child support is great, it very often goes against children. Many fathers would love to raise their children equally. And many mothers would allow that as having two parents better than one, but in many cases desire of getting that table amount starts the litigation and stupid claims in court for years "he is bad parent". Does it benefit children that their parents litigate for 3-5 years over the custody until their life savings run out? They don't have life with either of parents.
The amount of cases this involves is low. You are simply bitter about your experience. Not to mention that many of the cases going through extensive litigation are because both parents refuse to let shit go. It takes two to tango.

Quote:

I didnt leave my children, but I could easily see how someone with less money would have no choice. The system is broken. If all separations were starting with automatic equal parenting, and it was mother/father responsibility to prove need for different arrangements, it would've be completely different case.
Again the number of men being shamed is low and they are special cases where the parent has taken off and refuses to pay anything. I know a woman who has an order sitting at 200g in unpaid support. Her ex finally got caught and wants her to take pity on him meanwhile she worked three jobs to raise her kids. Should we be ok with mothers working two or three jobs to food on the table? Living on welfare? Putting their kids in foster care because their father refuses to take responsibility.

Quote:

It would also help if child support money could only be spent on kids and on nothing else.
There are very few people who dont spend the money on food and shelter.

Get over your issues with support, your ex and the system. This has nothing to do with the majority of people but only with the few who are assholes.


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respondent 07-24-2022 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 251319)
So because of your handful of friends we shouldn�t go after people who aren�t doing anything about their kids? Because of a small few bad mothers we as a society shouldn�t expect other parents to take responsibility?

I could just use the same argument that your isolated personal childhood experience has nothing to do with big numbers, and what makes you think that your mother didn't lie to you? Many kids find it out only decades later that their dad in fact was paying the support and mother wasn't allowing him seeing the child.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 251319)
The amount of cases this involves is low. You are simply bitter about your experience. Not to mention that many of the cases going through extensive litigation are because both parents refuse to let shit go. It takes two to tango.

This litigation happens primarily because for father it is uphill battle to win the right to spend time with children and to raise them. Why mothers don't mind 35-39% live with dad, but reject 40%-50%? The answer is simple, because they use child as an access to dad's bank account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockscan (Post 251319)
Again the number of men being shamed is low and they are special cases where the parent has taken off and refuses to pay anything. I know a woman who has an order sitting at 200g in unpaid support.

It would only be fair if FRO set's up a parallel page that those men committed suicide because of FRO actions and because courts are side with mothers.


I never had an experience with FRO, but this organization has no right to exist.

rockscan 07-24-2022 08:04 PM

If you have never had an experience with them you shouldnt be commenting.


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