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-   -   Suing in Civil Court for Mental anguish secondary to emotional abuse of children (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13754)

stepmom.againstPAS 11-26-2012 07:46 PM

Suing in Civil Court for Mental anguish secondary to emotional abuse of children
 
Hello,

I would like to introduce myself to this board. Im not giving any details about my partner's family law case-he is in court until next year..but

I am doing a pre-litigation assessment with my own lawyer, and plan to sue the
alienator for 25K in small claims or if my case has enough merit and evidence (we have voice recordings and emails etc) that I may go beyond.

Anyone else have experience doing this? I have hired a experienced lawyer who has taken cases to the supreme court ..not on this particular issue-he supports the self represented litigants from behind the scenes...

I know may of you may post that this is not in the best interest of the children to litigate. This situation is not in the best interested of the children and that is the point. I am putting forward the evidence of emotional abuse of the children and damages are to be donated towards the therapeutic intervention that is required.

I would be interested in anyone who can point me towards case law that may provide support for this case. I will post my findings of the pre-litigation assessment which should be completed in about 1 month.

Stop PAS it destroys families and hurts children.

murphyslaw 11-26-2012 07:57 PM

Money?You are after cold hard cash and you expect not to be judged as a greedy gold digger?Good luck with that.If you or your greedy partner actually gave a shit you would be seeing custody or an order asking for no bad talk on either side.Its quite simple and doesn't cost a fortune.Going to a civil court only shows your true motivations.

stepmom.againstPAS 11-26-2012 08:16 PM

No need to cash
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by murphyslaw (Post 117155)
Money?You are after cold hard cash and you expect not to be judged as a greedy gold digger?Good luck with that.If you or your greedy partner actually gave a shit you would be seeing custody or an order asking for no bad talk on either side.Its quite simple and doesn't cost a fortune.Going to a civil court only shows your true motivations.

Hi Murphyslaw,

We have already thought through the best course of action with an experienced mediator, and custody and child access social works and numerous other professionals we have consulted over the past two year. We are not new to this situation and do not need judgemental and harsh remarks. This is your own garbage you just aired on the board.

We are currently still grieve the loss of the children and these situations are not simple and do not require simple answers. Civil court is a way to finanacially pressure the alienator and will provide much needed funds for counseling for repairing the relationship damage that has been done. Do you know the cost of ongoing counseling with social workers in our area? $300 per hour? Family Bridges Program is thousands of dollars. If I was a gold digger I would not still be in this relationship. Give your head a shake before you spew thoughtless and unkind remarks. NO need to respond. I will not be responding any more to your posts and I would ask the moderator to block any more comments that are of this nature.

OhMy 11-26-2012 08:19 PM

IMO the civil suit will only harm your partners family law case at this stage. It will make you appear high conflict which will affect your partners case.

You say you are asking for 25k in damages in order to finance therapy for the children. If you have enough evidence to litigate, has this evidence been given to CAS? Will your partner use this evidence in the family law case?

Perhaps I am wrong, however it appears you are trying to litigate every angle in order to weaken the other party. A judge may see it that way too. I caution you on this.

Please see Tayken's posts on the matter of PAS.

OhMy 11-26-2012 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepmom.againstPAS;

We are currently still grieve the loss of the children and these situations are not simple and do not require simple answers. Civil court is a way to finanacially pressure the alienator.


This statement alone exudes emotional reasoning. I am not criticizing you, step back, take emotion out of it entirely, think clearly.

This statement suggests a desire to 'get even' as you and your partner are hurting. Get through this hurt first before you make further decisions.

HammerDad 11-26-2012 08:44 PM

Contempt is a much better way.

IMO, your action will likely be dismissed and you'll likely have to pay costs.

This isn't the US where people can sue for random reasons. You need to have suffered real and provable damages/loss.

If I were to bother wasting money on courts, I'd much rather putting towards fighting for my kids and counseling etc. instead of pissing it down a drain with likely a case that likely won't be heard let alone provable/winnable.

stepmom.againstPAS 11-26-2012 08:46 PM

Oh My,
Thank you, I think we need to acknowledge that these matters are emotional your expectation is unrealistic...I cannot be devoid of emotions no one can, we work as objectively as we can with each other's help. I am already past the get even part, I have moved on and we are not living a vicitim's life. I am concentrating on the fact that I am trying point out the mother IS EMOTIONAL ABUSE..ie child abuse.. Why is that such a negative thing to try to argue in court? I am really not seeing this...I do not plan to litigate until after the family case is done btw.

Tayken 11-26-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepmom.againstPAS (Post 117153)
Hello,

I would like to introduce myself to this board. Im not giving any details about my partner's family law case-he is in court until next year..but

I am doing a pre-litigation assessment with my own lawyer, and plan to sue the alienator for 25K in small claims or if my case has enough merit and evidence (we have voice recordings and emails etc) that I may go beyond.

This is quite possibly the worst idea I have seen posted to this site in a long time.

Reasons:

1. You have no grounds to even bring forward a small claims court.
2. Your evidence in a civil proceeding won't be heard and/or used.
3. If there is a claim of PAS it would have to be proven and a number of witnesses (experts) would have to evaluate the situation and the children in question. (Price tag is 265$/hour with a retainer of about 15,000$ to start and you would need consent from the other parent... GOOD LUCK ON THAT!)
4. Your lawsuit is frivolous and all about "you" and not the children in question.
5. It is a family law matter between the two parents and you are a non-party to that action before the court.
6. Your partner can bring forward a family law writ under his current action possibly for damage for psychological abuse but, the burden of evidence is incredibly HIGH.
7. Your cost to bring forward an expert to "prove" your case will cost you well beyond what small claims court would even award. Your costs to "win" and to attack the other parent is also transparent and sorry to say... More than likely you will have costs ordered against you on a SUBSTANTIAL basis for pulling this stunt.
8. The small claims judge will probably dismiss your claim. You have to demonstrate financial loss due to conduct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepmom.againstPAS (Post 117153)
Anyone else have experience doing this? I have hired a experienced lawyer who has taken cases to the supreme court ..not on this particular issue-he supports the self represented litigants from behind the scenes...

You have retained a negative advocate solicitor on a limited retainer lawyer who will bill you for giving you bad advice for which you can't hold them accountable for. Brilliant idea!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepmom.againstPAS (Post 117153)
I know may of you may post that this is not in the best interest of the children to litigate. This situation is not in the best interested of the children and that is the point. I am putting forward the evidence of emotional abuse of the children and damages are to be donated towards the therapeutic intervention that is required.

Call CAS, have your partner file a motion for a custody and access evaluator to be ordered under Section 30 of the Children's Law Reform Act... Small claims court is NOT going to even entertain your lawsuit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepmom.againstPAS (Post 117153)
I would be interested in anyone who can point me towards case law that may provide support for this case. I will post my findings of the pre-litigation assessment which should be completed in about 1 month.

You are not going to find any. Trust me on this. Your claims are frivolous, insight conflict and your attempt to solve the other parent's problems will be seen as controlling and an attempt to inflict unnecessary litigation in a different court.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepmom.againstPAS (Post 117153)
Stop PAS it destroys families and hurts children.

You really need to read this thread...

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-mossip-13753/

You then need to go to CanLII and select "Ontario" and search the term "Mossip" and read the case law that pops up on parental alienation. Also, read this forum on what constitutes alienation. I recently posted case law in another thread.

Also, you really need to read ALL the articles posted on Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW - Counselling; Individual, Marital, Family and I mean all of them.

You will only add unnecessary conflict by doing this... No one will see it in any other way.

Good Luck!
Tayken

mcdreamy 11-26-2012 08:47 PM

oh yeah... small claims is the way to go. :rolleyes:

Let's increase the conflict, shall we?

stepmom.againstPAS 11-26-2012 08:50 PM

She is already in contempt. Its not random reasons. The damages are documented by my mental health professionals (MD and social workers). We ARE fighting for the kids and counseling. That is the point. Sigh. I suppose its a both and in this case. I wish it was a case that had no merit, then I could just go to medical school and not worry about it, but to be honest I feel an ethical obligation. I feel I cannot stand by and do nothing.


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