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SingleinON 04-25-2018 07:27 PM

Property Division
 
I separated from my ex-girlfriend who had a child from a previous relationship (we didn't have any children together). We lived together for 6 years. I agreed to move out and allow her to reside in the home we purchased together (both our names are on the deed) until her child reached age of majority. This will come November of this year.

The way I understand it is that what she bought during the relationship is hers and what I bought is mine. We both agree on that; however, I would like to know how to proceed with the sale of the home and getting my share or her buying out my share of the home or quite possibly me buying out her share.

My question is what date would we use to value the home for the buyout (if we went that route?) She's claiming it was the date when I left 5 years ago but friends I have talked to said that it would be November of this year when her child turns 18 as we discussed previously. There were a few attempts at me buying her out just so I could get on with my life. She would agree verbally and via emails but when I had a lawyer draw up the documents she refused them..

Important fact I should mention - She has been paying the bills, mortgage and taxes etc since I've left.

Now that we're in discussions again I'm told I could be on the hook for paying child support. Is this true?!?! I did act as a "role model" to her child but they came as a package... The child did refer to me as "Dad", I did discipline them etc...

Currently, I rent a small apartment but am looking forward to moving on with my life and buying a new house with my girlfriend (who is pregnant but my ex doesn't know that yet) but I intend to keep that to myself for as long as I can.

Any advice is appreciated before I move onto the lawyer stage...

TIA
SingleinON

arabian 04-25-2018 08:26 PM

You should most definitely retain a lawyer "Dad"

Yes you could "be on the hook" for child support. It gets better... she could claim retroactive child support although she would have to explain why she didn't exert a claim previously to obtain it (which could be a challenge for her...but not insurmountable).

I'd be as generous as possible and not rock the boat and get your real estate matter resolved ASAP. Be sure to have a lawyer handle this and draw up the appropriate documentation.

If you cheap out and don't get a lawyer this could bite you in the arse for many years to come.

On the upside your "other child" is 18 and you probably would not have to pay child support going forward unless he/she was full-time in school. Again, seek advice from lawyer.

Others with more knowledge of this area will chime in.

Rioe 04-25-2018 09:43 PM

There are several ways you could look at the home issue.


1) She paid all the expenses since you moved out, therefore she is entitled to all the increase in value of the home. You would use date of separation as the valuation date.



2) You own half the home and are entitled to half the proceeds when it sells. You would use the actual sale value. In this case, however, she could argue that she paid all the expenses and you paid nothing, and you could counter with she never paid you any rent during the time she lived in a house you were an owner of.



You need to do some number crunching and figure out if the second option is enough of a money difference to be worth fighting about with lawyers.



As for the CS issue, if she didn't go after you for in loco parentis when you moved out five years ago, it's unlikely she would get it now. Have you maintained contact with the child since? Is the child going to post-secondary and would continue to need support for years to come?


Is she threatening to go after CS as a way to try to convince you to go with the five-year-ago value of the house?

SingleinON 04-26-2018 10:15 AM

We were trying to do this "amicably" but at your advisement I will most certainly retain a lawyer arabian

Rioe I am a little confused about your response -- In Point 1 you state we would use the date we split to value the home but in Point 2 you mention that we would split the proceeds of the current day value if we were to sell.

The house is worth more now than it was when we originally split and it would be in my best interest to pursue current day value. Would I be responsible for paying her back for the mortgage and property taxes? If she had a lawyer could they argue that the valuation date was when we originally split? I could argue current day but she could argue the day we separated (which would definitely be better for her). How do we lock in the the date so we can move forward?

I am hoping to settle without having to pay child support. I haven't seen the child since we split. I'm not sure if they plan on going to college but there has been discussions on it.

She hasn't really "threatened" me with it. I found out there was a possibility she could go after me for child support through friends. In a discussion with her about what we're going to be doing in the upcoming months she said she didn't want to pursue child support from me and just wants to sort out the house issue. Her "new boyfriend" mentioned offhand that if things get complicated they may file for child support. I don't know what he meant by this.

I might've dodged a bullet for now which is why I'm hoping to settle this before too much information gets into her head. Her child is special needs so she is saying she would like to reside in the home as this is the only home her child knows, which I have no issue with I just want closure and some money to move on and buy a house of my own. Though I will admit with this new boyfriend getting involved I'm kind of tempted to put the screws to her...I'm just frustrated and feel like they hold all the cards.

I should mention that there was some domestic issues in the past that I'm not sure could be brought up now and affect the outcome. Can this come back to haunt me if we go to court?

rockscan 04-26-2018 10:42 AM

Her bf is threatening you to get what she wants. Thats what he meant by that.

Best case scenario you split the value and move on. Worst case scenario you pay her half the cost of mortgage, taxes and insurance and child support.

You do need a lawyer. You also need to sit down and do some number crunching. First figure out how much child support you would have had to pay her for the last five years. Second, figure out what your half the costs of the mortgage, taxes and insurance are (also condo fees if there are any). Then figure out what your share of the home was on the date of the split and what your share of the home is today.

Look at what you would owe her for cs and share of the expenses vs the difference in the amounts you would seek for the house today and five years ago. If the cs and expenses equal out to that amount plus about ten grand for a lawyer, its not worth fighting the equalization for today’s value. Make an offer to settle for the amount from five years ago, get her to agree to not seek cs or expenses historically and going forward and go live your life.

Lets say the value today is about 100,000 vs 50,000 five years ago which means the difference is $50,000 you would get. Then your share of the expenses and child support over those five years is about 60,000 — (cs for one child on 60 grand a year is about $600 a month plus about $600 for expenses thats $72,000 for five years).

Youre looking at AT LEAST $10,000 to fight this. Is the amount really worth it? You may end up owing her money in the long run.

kate331 04-26-2018 10:45 AM

Does the bio Dad pay support? Is he active in the child's life? I am asking this because if this is the case they you didnt loco parent the child. The bio Dad was the parent.

I am not a legal expert here so I cannot offer legal advice, but I would like to commend and thank you for your compassion towards this special needs child. Allowing the child to stay in "their" home until he reach 18.

Rioe 04-26-2018 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingleinON (Post 228301)
Rioe I am a little confused about your response -- In Point 1 you state we would use the date we split to value the home but in Point 2 you mention that we would split the proceeds of the current day value if we were to sell.


Those are the two possibilities that could end up happening.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SingleinON (Post 228301)
The house is worth more now than it was when we originally split and it would be in my best interest to pursue current day value. Would I be responsible for paying her back for the mortgage and property taxes? If she had a lawyer could they argue that the valuation date was when we originally split? I could argue current day but she could argue the day we separated (which would definitely be better for her). How do we lock in the the date so we can move forward?


If you want option 2, using the current value, she would argue that you would therefore need to repay her those back expenses, then you would argue that she would owe you occupational rent as a part owner. All that arguing would cost lawyers and dollars.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SingleinON (Post 228301)
I am hoping to settle without having to pay child support. I haven't seen the child since we split. I'm not sure if they plan on going to college but there has been discussions on it.

She hasn't really "threatened" me with it. I found out there was a possibility she could go after me for child support through friends. In a discussion with her about what we're going to be doing in the upcoming months she said she didn't want to pursue child support from me and just wants to sort out the house issue. Her "new boyfriend" mentioned offhand that if things get complicated they may file for child support. I don't know what he meant by this.


What he means is that if you get difficult about the house valuation by going for option 2 instead of option 1, they will bring CS into it. It's meant to deter you.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SingleinON (Post 228301)
I might've dodged a bullet for now which is why I'm hoping to settle this before too much information gets into her head. Her child is special needs so she is saying she would like to reside in the home as this is the only home her child knows, which I have no issue with I just want closure and some money to move on and buy a house of my own. Though I will admit with this new boyfriend getting involved I'm kind of tempted to put the screws to her...I'm just frustrated and feel like they hold all the cards.

I should mention that there was some domestic issues in the past that I'm not sure could be brought up now and affect the outcome. Can this come back to haunt me if we go to court?


I'll let other more knowledgeable people come along, but my thinking is that she's had five years to prepare for buying you out of the house. When you made that agreement, did you specify what date/value would be used?


New partners always want what makes gets the most money for your ex.


Again, I advise you to do some math and figure out what the actual monetary difference there would be between option 1 and option 2. Knowing that information is essential to determining how worthwhile the fight would be.

Janus 04-27-2018 11:22 AM

You're in a shaky boat. It is possible you could get current value of the house, and not pay CS. It is also possible you could get separation value of the house, and pay retroactive CS, and pay prospective CS, and pay for post-secondary costs. You could also get a mixture of the above.

The fight alone would cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

The problem with CS is that you cannot make an agreement to shield yourself. She can come after you at any time. The fact that you have no relationship with the child is good. Keep it that way.

It is a tricky position. You can offer separation value of the house, but if she goes after you for CS at a later date, you won't be able to "undo" your generous offer. The fact that the bf is already threatening you with CS means that at the very least it is on their radar.

It is a powerful weapon, financially speaking CS would probably be crippling.

Offhand, if you went to court, my prediction would be that you pay no CS, and that you get separation value for the house. That said, it is a bit of a crapshoot.

I think I would offer separation value, and then never speak to her again.

SingleinON 04-27-2018 06:37 PM


Thank you all for your quick replies.

Rockscan
I will definitely do some number crunching this weekend and let you know. The house has increased at least 200K since the split.

Kate331
I appreciate your kind words. He is a great kid and we developed an amazing bond. I would have liked to have kept the relationship going since he came out his cocoon after getting to know me. I didn't pursue that since I didn't think I could but from the sounds of it I might have been in quite the situation if we still were.. Separations drive me crazy. I'm already working on getting a separation agreement with the new gf. I NEVER want to go through something like this again!! From what I understand the new bf is very controlling and bio dad isn't much better as he isn't in the picture since he's in and out of jail.

Rioe
When we first split we were using the separation date for the value of the house during our discussions since we agreed that the amount of the home was X amount of dollars at the time of the split. I submitted a couple settlement offers that she agreed to via email. Would documentation like emails help if we went to court? Unfortunately the only thing I have in writing is the agreement that the house was valued as X when we split

Janus
Is "separation value" the value of the house on the separation date? Sorry still new to the jargon. And it seems like the separation date doesn’t even come into effect for common law couples when there’s the option of pursuing current day value? Its very misleading. As per your response if I offer her separation value, and then never speak to her again and I dont' hear back from her I will be in the same boat I'm in now.

If I use the value of what the house was worth on the Separation date it will be a big mistake on my part as the house has increased so much over the years. I wasn’t aware I could ask for current day value until I starting asking around. I was thinking about offering current day value (determined by averaging what the realtors would put it on the market for today) minus 1/2 what she has paid (mortgage and property taxes) and no child support. I think that sounds fair.. I'm hoping she realizes that and takes it but by the sounds of it I don't think she'll agree (she is very irrational) and it will likely be a trip to court for us.

I'm to the point where I really don't care about the outcome (well I kind of do) as I just want to settle for the least amount of legal costs in the long run and am willing to sweeten the deal to avoid going to court.

She has the backing of a pretty well to do family so I don't think that court fees will bother her too much as it's all about her sense of entitlement, the fight to get what she wants (even if it's unreasonable), and soaking me for as much as she can get. It's truly maddening and a couple of the reasons why we broke up. Myself on the other hand I am trying to save for a new home and a baby so not a lot of cash for the lawyer (which could be what they are counting on - my ability to not fight with dollars).

I’ve considered mediation (sounds cheaper than court) where their judgement is final but I find it hard to put my fate in someone’s hands like that… I am going to take all of your advice into consideration and hope for the best possible outcome but is there any advice you could provide should she force me to go the court route?

Would they take into consideration that she is irrational with her expectations of wanting EVERYTHING her way!! Could she bring up the domestic issue and would that sway the court in anyway?<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p




kate331 04-27-2018 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingleinON (Post 228348)


Would they take into consideration that she is irrational with her expectations of wanting EVERYTHING her way!! Could she bring up the domestic issue and would that sway the court in anyway?<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p


It would only sway the court in a custody issue. But be very aware that if you have any prior domestic charges and you get charged again with your new partner, your going to be up shits creek with no paddle

If money is tight you could always try to representing yourself, there is a wealth of legal advice on this site alone. Also find a lawyer that offers an unbundling service if you need help with the paperwork.


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