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-   -   Congratulations WorkingDad (https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10667)

Tayken 11-13-2011 12:36 PM

Congratulations WorkingDad
 
After reviewing WorkingDad's entire set of posting on this site over the course of his litigation and final trial I have to say he is a model that many parents should really follow.

The successful litigation against an OCL assessment is no easy feat for the best solicitors let alone a self represented litigant!

This decision, once posted, should serve a lot of parents who are subjected to biased assessments by "professionals" who fail to appropriately investigate matters and apply the proper case law and evidence medicine in their recommendations.

Too many parents fall to the will of these professionals, who often conduct themselves in unprofessional manners, cannot maintain neutrality and fail to investigate the appropriate matters.

This situation demonstrates quite clearly the need for standard investigation guide lines for Section 30 of the Children's Law Reform Act and significant training for the people conducting these assessments far beyond what the vast majority have. Personal opinion should not be the basis of assessments but, sound cogent evidence based on proper investigations and a true assessment.

Congratulations to WorkingDad! Before the courts this is an incredible presidence that I don't think most people truly realize.

To have a judge identify his cross examination of the OCL Social Worker "devastating" is incredible. Social Workers are clinicians, mental health workers, and they have an obligation under their governing body to conduct themselves as such. Assessments are not "extra income" but, a clinical investigation into what is best for children. These Social Workers, Psychologists and Psychiatrists who conduct these "investigations" should be held accountable to the principles of "evidence based medicine" which their governing bodies rely on.

My hat goes off to WorkingDad. Hopefully more parents will be just as persistent and organized as he has been in these matters.

I can't wait to see the decision listed on CanLII.org!

Good luck to everyone in this situation!
Tayken

LostFather 11-13-2011 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tayken (Post 79914)
After reviewing WorkingDad's entire set of posting on this site over the course of his litigation and final trial I have to say he is a model that many parents should really follow.

The successful litigation against an OCL assessment is no easy feat for the best solicitors let alone a self represented litigant!

This decision, once posted, should serve a lot of parents who are subjected to biased assessments by "professionals" who fail to appropriately investigate matters and apply the proper case law and evidence medicine in their recommendations.

Too many parents fall to the will of these professionals, who often conduct themselves in unprofessional manners, cannot maintain neutrality and fail to investigate the appropriate matters.

This situation demonstrates quite clearly the need for standard investigation guide lines for Section 30 of the Children's Law Reform Act and significant training for the people conducting these assessments far beyond what the vast majority have. Personal opinion should not be the basis of assessments but, sound cogent evidence based on proper investigations and a true assessment.

Congratulations to WorkingDad! Before the courts this is an incredible presidence that I don't think most people truly realize.

To have a judge identify his cross examination of the OCL Social Worker "devastating" is incredible. Social Workers are clinicians, mental health workers, and they have an obligation under their governing body to conduct themselves as such. Assessments are not "extra income" but, a clinical investigation into what is best for children. These Social Workers, Psychologists and Psychiatrists who conduct these "investigations" should be held accountable to the principles of "evidence based medicine" which their governing bodies rely on.

My hat goes off to WorkingDad. Hopefully more parents will be just as persistent and organized as he has been in these matters.

I can't wait to see the decision listed on CanLII.org!

Good luck to everyone in this situation!
Tayken

I actual had a ocl in my favor. Suggesting equal access and joint custody. Suggesting that to give one parent the balance of power would not work. Said it was in the best interest of the children to see each parent equally. Judge kept me to one day a week short of equal access...full cs. And sole to mom....stating status quoe. Ocl was overly optimistic in her access that the parties would cooperate...The thing is. before we separated we made decisions jointly and cooperatively. After separation...she acted as in sole custody...knocking me out of the picture.... doing whatever she pleased...admitted in court to most of it with impunity...judge was not moved by any of it. Ruled against Ocl recommendations and children's wishes.

The thing is. Ocl is the only non biased person that has spent any time with us and the children. A total of 3 visits...2-4 hrs each visit...with each parent.

After reading about all the horor stories about Ocl and fathers I couldn't believe it when I got a decision in my favor....all for nothing though...get in the courtroom none of it mattered. Have to wonder all the dads that didn't have an Ocl in their favor...how many judges went again those reports for moms favor?? W.D. is now one...maybe things are changing....slowly but change is coming....congrats W.D.

So what does those all mean for W.D??

LostFather 11-13-2011 02:41 PM

Never mind. Thanks anyway Takyen found the thread....very encouraging.

FamilyBlah 11-13-2011 05:39 PM

Any idea how long before this case is listed on CanLII.org?

WorkingDAD 11-13-2011 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FamilyBlah (Post 79927)
Any idea how long before this case is listed on CanLII.org?

I don't
My understanding that first we have to finalize order. Than something should be done to publish it on CanLii and I can not find out what exactly...

I am going to have 30 min consultation with counsel (not free) I will ask this one too...

I can promise you guys will be second to know.

WorkingDAD 11-13-2011 06:25 PM

Thank you, Taken

I would be honored if this one become precedent and after that similar cases just pile up and not far from now we have a revolution in Family Law and will be at least where Australia is now...

BTW that OCL investigator is working in CAS at some management level ... It actually in my list to esquire his supervisor after case published is it going to be some sort of hearing...

I would like to do something so this kind of #$$%^ will not happened to somebody else..

LostFather 11-13-2011 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkingDAD (Post 79930)
Thank you, Taken

I would be honored if this one become precedent and after that similar cases just pile up and not far from now we have a revolution in Family Law and will be at least where Australia is now...

BTW that OCL investigator is working in CAS at some management level ... It actually in my list to esquire his supervisor after case published is it going to be some sort of hearing...

I would like to do something so this kind of #$$%^ will not happened to somebody else..

I have to wonder if a person would have any recourse? These people are intrusted to make an unbiased report of facts. It would of appeared to have failed in that area. I am unsure if you're willing to take on a task of filing a complaint after all you've been through but i hope that you ask this investigator to be in investigated.

WorkingDAD 11-13-2011 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostFather (Post 79931)
I have to wonder if a person would have any recourse? These people are intrusted to make an unbiased report of facts. It would of appeared to have failed in that area. I am unsure if you're willing to take on a task of filing a complaint after all you've been through but i hope that you ask this investigator to be in investigated.

Honestly, I more in the position to think that he just did not do good job. Even I tried to bring up question to him "Do you think that majority of you training and work in the area of "womans" (violants against woman etc)" could affect you? He said not and I did not pursue this one. It's one hard issue to prove without really something stick out...

Tayken 11-14-2011 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostFather (Post 79931)
I have to wonder if a person would have any recourse? These people are intrusted to make an unbiased report of facts. It would of appeared to have failed in that area. I am unsure if you're willing to take on a task of filing a complaint after all you've been through but i hope that you ask this investigator to be in investigated.

The Ontario Ombudsman may be responsible for the Office of the Children's Lawyer (OCL). If they are then a complaint, attaching all the cogent evidence, can be attached and an investigation can take place. I know that Legal Aid Ontario is investigated by The Ombudsman. But, not sure about the OCL.

There is probably a governing body that reviews OCL. Finding it and learning their complaint process is key.

Furthermore, if the OCL "Social Worker" is registered you can also file a complaint with their governing body as well. As clinicians they have a governing body that assesses their conduct and qualifications. A complaint again, attaching all the cogent evidence (i.e. the decision) could be made. You would have to study their practice guide lines and see if the provided report violates their code of conduct etc...

Good Luck!
Tayken

Tayken 11-14-2011 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkingDAD (Post 79934)
Honestly, I more in the position to think that he just did not do good job. Even I tried to bring up question to him "Do you think that majority of you training and work in the area of "womans" (violants against woman etc)" could affect you? He said not and I did not pursue this one. It's one hard issue to prove without really something stick out...

1. Do you currently work with any organizations who support male victims of intimate partner abuse?

2. Why not?

3. Do you believe that men can be victims of intimate partner abuse?

4. What official training have you received in the issues of female instigated intimate partner abuse?

5. Do you believe that men can be victims of psychological abuse?

6. Can you describe the criteria, against DMS-IV-TR, ICD-9, ICD-10 or any other widely accepted criteria based on clinical evidence in support of your personal opinions provided in the report against my client?

7. Has the alleged vicitim of this alleged abuse sought any treatment? Why not?

etc... The line of questioning can be done. True victims of psychological abuse need treatment. Those who make false allegations of it... Say they are fine and the abuser is the one who needs help generally.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Tayken 11-14-2011 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkingDAD (Post 79929)
I don't
My understanding that first we have to finalize order. Than something should be done to publish it on CanLii and I can not find out what exactly...

I am going to have 30 min consultation with counsel (not free) I will ask this one too...

I can promise you guys will be second to know.

I am researching it now (CanLII). Have a question out to them and hopefully they will respond shortly.

Good Luck!
Tayken

WorkingDAD 11-14-2011 11:45 PM

My Trial Bag
 
Here is what I have to pull/push for 17 days. This thing weigh probably about 30 kg. I actually have very hard time to put it in my car and take it out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-s...myTrialBag.jpg

This BTW (what is ironically) one of the two identical bags I came to Canada when immigrated. It survived several trips overseas but it did not survived Trial - frame broke and one wheel almost busted.

May_May 11-15-2011 09:32 AM

Wow-A picture speaks a thousand words...How true !
Congratulations again ! Well done...

Did your ex come to trial so well prepared as well ? how big was her case/box ? ha...what a shame that anyone (be it a father or mother) would have to go through all of this, just for equal time with their children.

WorkingDAD 11-15-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by May_May (Post 80019)
Wow-A picture speaks a thousand words...How true !
Congratulations again ! Well done...

Did your ex come to trial so well prepared as well ? how big was her case/box ? ha...what a shame that anyone (be it a father or mother) would have to go through all of this, just for equal time with their children.

No doubts..
You can add to this picture about the same size bag of books what I have to go through.

Moms was so arrogant and assured that nothing I can do (she had OCL in her favor, Status Quo, Primary caregiver, Legal AID lawyer) that only thing what she carried with her was my document briefs. Even so she did not really bother to read it as far as I can tell ...

May be now when she wrote to me that ruling is bullshit, it's discrimination, that she will appeal and will self-rep, that real fight only begins and she will never accept it and so on so on she will read it ...

But before she want to go in front of Judge (to whom she lied for 17 days) and tell him that OurFamilyWizard site what he ordered to use is too complicated and she can not use it. I wonder how well it will go :D

Marcos 11-15-2011 03:24 PM

Phenomenal work, WorkingDad.

How did you ever juggle a full time Job (assumption) and all your research and preparation? Any tips/suggestions?

WorkingDAD 11-15-2011 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcos (Post 80047)
Phenomenal work, WorkingDad.

How did you ever juggle a full time Job (assumption) and all your research and preparation? Any tips/suggestions?

I did and still somehow has it.
juggle... I do not know. I do not really have choice. Stay in office after midnight.

No life for at least 6 month for sure and that was not really life for whole 2 years..

to much to write and Gary M. will not like it and will tell me suck it up ... So I better keep it short )

dadtotheend 11-15-2011 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkingDAD (Post 80028)
May be now when she wrote to me that ruling is bullshit, it's discrimination, that she will appeal and will self-rep, that real fight only begins and she will never accept it and so on so on she will read it ...

That's the biggest joke of all...that Mom would claim discrimination. That's the same garbage my ex spewed out. As if fathers haven't been disciminated against...and continue to be...for decades in family law. Puke my guts out.

BTW, I bet that the several inch think stack of papers with the sticky notes sticking out in the right side of the picture is the OCL report. Am I right?

WorkingDAD 11-15-2011 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadtotheend (Post 80063)
That's the biggest joke of all...that Mom would claim discrimination. That's the same garbage my ex spewed out. As if fathers haven't been disciminated against...and continue to be...for decades in family law. Puke my guts out.

BTW, I bet that the several inch think stack of papers with the sticky notes sticking out in the right side of the picture is the OCL report. Am I right?

Nope
You can no see OCL report on a picture. It's tiny just 17 pages)
My word file called ocl_report_analisys_.doc has 12 pgs. According to word statistics total editing time of only that document is 57 hours. that would be fare to say that you can put at least *10 that for reading, research on a topic...

Now when I look into thous number it;s just hard to digest and sad that so much effort spent for something what just should not happened in first place. If I would put that effort toward my work I probably would be much better off now ((

WorkingDAD 11-16-2011 11:24 PM

Ruling is published
 
Ok guys!

to my surprise and almost shock (as I still need to go in front of Judge to fix some parts of it)

THE RULING IS OUT.

All comments are welcome (except Storm)

I am not giving you a link but want to see who will be able to find it first.
anyone? that not hard :)

I would really like if Gary M will be first one and after reading it he would wrote to me that he is sorry for called me as$%^&e and send me his next batch of cinamon buns:D


2Taken:
Please contact me ASAP. Please.

Now you will know everything about me and what I have to deal with... Should I still be working dad or should I abandon profile and create new?

FamilyBlah 11-16-2011 11:33 PM

I'd love to see it, but I'll need a hint or two to find it.

WorkingDAD 11-16-2011 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FamilyBlah (Post 80127)
I'd love to see it, but I'll need a hint or two to find it.

common
there is a looooooooooooooooot if hints
are you giving up?

Pursuinghappiness 11-16-2011 11:39 PM

Am I the only one who finds this Workingdad guy obnoxious?

Dude, if you want people to read the link to your case, grow up and post it. You're like a goofy little kid.

Storm 11-17-2011 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80130)
Am I the only one who finds this Workingdad guy obnoxious?

Dude, if you want people to read the link to your case, grow up and post it. You're like a goofy little kid.

we are on same page here :)

WorkingDAD 11-17-2011 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80130)
Am I the only one who finds this Workingdad guy obnoxious?

Dude, if you want people to read the link to your case, grow up and post it. You're like a goofy little kid.

No there are two of such what I know of
You and my ex.

What is wrong with you? Don't you enjoy little challenge? If you do not want even to try why even bother - wait when someone give it to you...

and for the record I do not want or asked you on anyone specifically to read if that what you imply... that personal choice.

FamilyBlah 11-17-2011 08:35 AM

I can't find it.

FamilyBlah 11-17-2011 08:53 AM

Nevermind, found it...

CanLII - 2011 ONSC 6451 (CanLII)

blinkandimgone 11-17-2011 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80130)
Am I the only one who finds this Workingdad guy obnoxious?

Dude, if you want people to read the link to your case, grow up and post it. You're like a goofy little kid.

Nope, you're definitely not the only one.

WorkingDAD 11-17-2011 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkandimgone (Post 80145)
Nope, you're definitely not the only one.

Oh I am sorry I forgot about you blinkandimgone. OK there are three of you.
May be you can form union now. Do you need help with picking the name?
Let me know if have difficulties with creative thinking...

Marcos 11-17-2011 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkandimgone (Post 80145)
Nope, you're definitely not the only one.

You people are nuts. This man's dedication and love for his child led him to over turn decisions by a court on child custody while overcoming, the legal system, language barriers and immense stress and hardship. The odds he faced were daunting but he did it for the love of his son.

Maybe you people want everything spoon fed and to cross your fingers and hope that things happen for you work out in your favour. With that attitude it is obvious you really don't care about the outcome of your situation and you should simply accept what you get.

He has shared his ordeal and information through and you can't be bothered to put in a simple keyword search on Canlii, you are ridiculous.

Thank you WorkingDad, you have achieved something that should give hope to every father here battling injustice. You have proven that it is possible.

Pursuinghappiness 11-17-2011 11:12 AM

I wasn't interested in reading his case. I have no doubt that he managed to marry and have children with someone as obnoxious as he is and had to fight her for basic rights. While I applaud the efforts...I find his behavior here continously hostile, strange and ego-driven.

I won't bother to continue posting to him as I find most of what he has to say laden with bizarre (and difficult to comprehend) arrogance. However, will say that I think its highly ridiculous to gloat during divorce....there are no winners..everyone loses, mostly children.

Storm 11-17-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80150)
I wasn't interested in reading his case. I have no doubt that he managed to marry and have children with someone as obnoxious as he is and had to fight her for basic rights. While I applaud the efforts...I find his behavior here continously hostile, strange and ego-driven.

I won't bother to continue posting to him as I find most of what he has to say laden with bizarre (and difficult to comprehend) arrogance. However, will say that I think its highly ridiculous to gloat during divorce....there are no winners..everyone loses, mostly children.

I agree with you. It is very sad, that children are the once to hurt most:(

blinkandimgone 11-17-2011 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcos (Post 80148)
You people are nuts. This man's dedication and love for his child led him to over turn decisions by a court on child custody while overcoming, the legal system, language barriers and immense stress and hardship. The odds he faced were daunting but he did it for the love of his son.

Maybe you people want everything spoon fed and to cross your fingers and hope that things happen for you work out in your favour. With that attitude it is obvious you really don't care about the outcome of your situation and you should simply accept what you get.

He has shared his ordeal and information through and you can't be bothered to put in a simple keyword search on Canlii, you are ridiculous.

Thank you WorkingDad, you have achieved something that should give hope to every father here battling injustice. You have proven that it is possible.

None of which speaks to whether or not people find him obnoxious.

WorkingDAD 11-17-2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80150)
I wasn't interested in reading his case. I have no doubt that he managed to marry and have children with someone as obnoxious as he is and had to fight her for basic rights. While I applaud the efforts...I find his behavior here continously hostile, strange and ego-driven.

I won't bother to continue posting to him as I find most of what he has to say laden with bizarre (and difficult to comprehend) arrogance.

Ok I am really tired of that bullshit

you have not even slightest clue what you talking about. You did not even bother to read not only ruling (what is looks like too much reading for you anyway) but even what I wrote here before you decide to put out your trash talk. Who do you think you are Pursuinghappiness? or whatever your real name is... Base on your posts it;s not happiness you are pursuing it obviously something else...

Quote:

However, will say that I think its highly ridiculous to gloat during divorce....there are no winners..everyone loses, mostly children.
First of all i was never married to that bat-shit crazy. I wanted to help her get on her feet and she just turnout to be the worst human been I meet in my life when she realized that nothing will keep me with her even child.

Secondly show me at least once where I "gloat" about divorce or anything. Can you? I do not think so..

It just amaze me how some people can only feel good about themselves when they trash someone. Don't you have anything else to do? Gosh...

Pursuinghappiness 11-17-2011 12:40 PM

Quote:

First of all i was never married to that bat-shit crazy. I wanted to help her get on her feet and she just turnout to be the worst human been I meet in my life when she realized that nothing will keep me with her even child.

You wanted to help her get on her feet by impregnating her? Maybe you meant you were trying to help her get on her back??? Who knows...another arrogant, angry and incomprehensible post.

Anyway, I won't bother to respond to the insults directed at me...I don't consider your opinion relevant. If you think your behavior reflects a mature, normal adult...then you keep thinking that. I disagree but its just my opinion.

I'll follow my early comment and cease any further posts to you...its a waste of time and life is short.


Blink: lol, you seriously crack me up. I never drink coffee reading your posts cause it really hurts when I inhale it while laughing.

blinkandimgone 11-17-2011 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80163)

Blink: lol, you seriously crack me up. I never drink coffee reading your posts cause it really hurts when I inhale it while laughing.

Heh....things get boring out here in the not-so-bustling suburbs of Lucknow. Gotta do something to keep me busy and so it seems it has been successfull.

P.S. Milkshakes...avoid those too. You think it's a challenge to suck it through the straw? Wait till it's coming out your nose - ouch!

LostFather 11-17-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcos (Post 80148)
You people are nuts. This man's dedication and love for his child led him to over turn decisions by a court on child custody while overcoming, the legal system, language barriers and immense stress and hardship. The odds he faced were daunting but he did it for the love of his son.

Maybe you people want everything spoon fed and to cross your fingers and hope that things happen for you work out in your favour. With that attitude it is obvious you really don't care about the outcome of your situation and you should simply accept what you get.

He has shared his ordeal and information through and you can't be bothered to put in a simple keyword search on Canlii, you are ridiculous.

Thank you WorkingDad, you have achieved something that should give hope to every father here battling injustice. You have proven that it is possible.

Agreed and the want it now entitlement... W.D. Is happy and having a little fun...for Christ sake let him be and enjoy a little of it. What wd has accomplished is as many have already said no easy task, he has been through hell and back...for what??? the right to see his child??? The right to have a say...these were taken from him by a mother....a mother who is supposed to protect their child. This disgusting, abusive and in my opinion criminal behavior is often condoned by courts and the biased family law industry.

He deserves bison 15 min of sunshine, let him have it in peace.

LostFather 11-17-2011 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness (Post 80163)
You wanted to help her get on her feet by impregnating her? Maybe you meant you were trying to help her get on her back??? Who knows...another arrogant, angry and incomprehensible post.

Anyway, I won't bother to respond to the insults directed at me...I don't consider your opinion relevant. If you think your behavior reflects a mature, normal adult...then you keep thinking that. I disagree but its just my opinion.

I'll follow my early comment and cease any further posts to you...its a waste of time and life is short.


Blink: lol, you seriously crack me up. I never drink coffee reading your posts cause it really hurts when I inhale it while laughing.

Obviously English is not his first language. Either you missed that or are choosing to miss that fact to further your insults to him. The very person you do find funny and amusing in here, I find very interesting and would find your comments hypocritical. These are just my opinion and observations that are of course not speaking for anyone but me.

I just really find your statements incredible.

Storm 11-17-2011 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostFather (Post 80170)
Obviously English is not his first language. Either you missed that or are choosing to miss that fact to further your insults to him. The very person you do find funny and amusing in here, I find very interesting and would find your comments hypocritical. These are just my opinion and observations that are of course not speaking for anyone but me.

I just really find your statements incredible.

sometimes I think you are same person with different profile :)

Tayken 11-17-2011 01:27 PM

1. I think the posted decision speaks for itself in volumes regarding character.

2. This demonstrates that even without a command of the English language, logical and well minded people are not consumed by the "system" that is litigation.

3. If you maintain course, identify relevant cogent evidence, and argue your case against the proper rules and do the right research the right thing will happen.

4. WorkingDad is a dedicated parent. Throughout the decision there are points at which he could have argued, and in my opinion gotten more. He proposed the 50-50 access. Which demonstrates his concern for the child and the need for both parent's to be involved.

5. This decision has already started to circle the family law legal community.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Pursuinghappiness 11-17-2011 01:33 PM

Lostfather:

Quote:

Obviously English is not his first language.
I didn't comment his issues with the language barrier...I commented on his arrogance, gloating and immaturity.

Quote:

The very person you do find funny and amusing in here, I find very interesting and would find your comments hypocritical.
Not sure what this means.

Quote:

He deserves bison 15 min of sunshine, let him have it in peace.
Not sure why he deserves to eat bison in sunshine. I'm a vegetarian. Can you even get bison anymore? Is this some kind of post-divorce hunting ritual that no one has explained to me?


Storm:

Quote:

sometimes I think you are same person with different profile :)
I'm inclined to agree with you given the above posts.


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