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  • Awaiting OCL Disclosure

    Only a few days before my OCL section 112 disclosure meeting. Have to say I am a little nervous by having someone who has been in D5's life for less than 20 hours making these recommendations. Also my ex seems to be nervous as well and has came up with some last minute strategies, not sure but may back fire on her. Will keep you updated as to how it turns out for us.


    I have read a bunch of OCL topics but was wondering if anyone out there can give some last minute advice to what to expect and how to cope with the extra stress related to this.

  • #2
    Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
    Only a few days before my OCL section 112 disclosure meeting. Have to say I am a little nervous by having someone who has been in D5's life for less than 20 hours making these recommendations. Also my ex seems to be nervous as well and has came up with some last minute strategies, not sure but may back fire on her. Will keep you updated as to how it turns out for us.


    I have read a bunch of OCL topics but was wondering if anyone out there can give some last minute advice to what to expect and how to cope with the extra stress related to this.
    OCL isn't very good at what they do. Had you spoken up prior to getting the OCL many people would have advised against OCL and the necessary case law to put in your BoA to not have them involved.

    Comment


    • #3
      Completely agree with Tayken. OCL was ordered in our case.

      The worker provided a report that included meetings that never took place and quoted them. The worker only met with the child by phone for 10 minutes and another 10 minutes in person at the school.

      When challenged, OCL refused to stand behind the report and fired the worker.

      Just because something in written in the report does not mean it happened or was actually said.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have to agree too after what I have read of some of their reports.

        I have read some bad reviews of the social worker doing mine, mainly about how he/she takes on cases that are in conflict of interest. He/she also seems to be pretty flaky in regards to booking apportionment. They also booked disclosure meeting prior to talking to my contacts I had provided, and the most important one they haven't even talked to yet and there is one business day before disclosure.

        My case conference was adjourned to see if OCL was going to step in and they did. Wish I would have read more about them prior to this.

        Tayken, what is BoA? I have tried to search about it but came up empty handed.

        Thanks

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
          Tayken, what is BoA? I have tried to search about it but came up empty handed.
          Book of Authorities (Where you stuff your case law for the judge to review.)

          For example you could have included this very common one that is used quite often to deflect nonsense like Section 30 evaluations and OCL.

          http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...azaratz-12452/

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the reply, I was thinking brief of argument. But that has shed some more light into the case law part I had been wondering about.

            I am in Justice Pazaratz house when I go to court and have loved reading many of his decisions that have been posted. Especially his one where he made the mother pay costs to snip her wings.

            My lawyer is not very good and overworked. I am trying to do some things myself so I can snip my ex wings. Do you know of any examples of Offer to Settles out there? I would like to prepare a few reasonable ones so that I can then go to legal aid and show evidence of how the ex lies in all court documents and that they are funding me as well to defend against them. No doubt that this OCL report will be full of lies that the ex states, but may be good because I can prove a lot of things she says so far are not true.

            Comment


            • #7
              The results are in! You are the father! Just kidding, but I did get a DNA test for my own peace of mind prior.

              The disclosure meeting went rather well I think,

              The ex showed up 30mins late, which confirms what I have stated to the OCL.

              I showed up first and began recording prior to entering the office.

              While waiting for the ex to arrive our lawyers began to try and settle other cases directly in front of me, lmao.

              OCL recommended equal time sharing; which is what I am fighting for, nothing more nothing less.

              They recommended a parallel approach. Leaving me to make final decisions regarding education and religion, and the ex medical.

              They recommended that the ex seek some sort of parenting class and/or therapy.

              I am going to prepare an Offer to Settle based off this report, and states some recommendations regarding medical related wishes for our daughter. If she cannot agree it should clearly show the ex's inability to make a final decision regarding medical related issues. If she does agree to them I will gladly agree to her making these decisions. If not, a fight for sole would be in order.

              Ocl worker directly stated to the ex that she will be able to book dentist appointments, lol.

              A little off topic, but while waiting for the ex to arrive. There was some discussion regrading members of the bar, and a new judge that had been appointed. The ex's lawyer said that this new judge is really young and was just a few years younger than herself, my lawyer then replied "That doesn't necessarily mean that she is young at all." My lawyer and I had a very good chuckle at her expense to set the mood.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
                OCL recommended equal time sharing; which is what I am fighting for, nothing more nothing less.
                As they should.

                Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
                They recommended a parallel approach. Leaving me to make final decisions regarding education and religion, and the ex medical.
                This is typical. Remember, doctors are professionals and they won't do anything stupid. Also, there is more that someone can screw around with when it comes to school. Like moving the school out of jurisdiction. Medical there is a very well trained professional who is ultimately guiding parents through it all. They also can and will ignore the order if they feel their patient is in need of proper care. Doctors are not beholden to the court order.

                Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
                They recommended that the ex seek some sort of parenting class and/or therapy.
                Don't worry about what they recommended for the other parent. Look at what they recommended for you.

                Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
                I am going to prepare an Offer to Settle based off this report, and states some recommendations regarding medical related wishes for our daughter.
                It is hard to screw around with medical stuff. Doctors code of practice won't let them administer unnecessary treatments. You are better off having education. You can really screw up the educational stuff. That is why you were given that.

                I would simply recommend you put forward a offer to settle that is exactly the same as the OCL report. 50-50 access. joint custody in the model of parallel parenting and for any dispute resolution the matter goes to arbitration not court.

                No need to fight any further than this. Glad to see the SteelCity OCL got a good wake up call after having their wings clipped.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I disagree with the statement - Doctors code of practice won't let them administer unnecessary treatments.

                  This does not mean they won't. In my case, a walk in doctor who did not know my child or situation, was reprimanded by the College for administering a very invasive examination to a distraught and upset 9 yr old.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
                    The results are in! You are the father! Just kidding, but I did get a DNA test for my own peace of mind prior.

                    The disclosure meeting went rather well I think,

                    The ex showed up 30mins late, which confirms what I have stated to the OCL.

                    I showed up first and began recording prior to entering the office.

                    While waiting for the ex to arrive our lawyers began to try and settle other cases directly in front of me, lmao.

                    OCL recommended equal time sharing; which is what I am fighting for, nothing more nothing less.

                    They recommended a parallel approach. Leaving me to make final decisions regarding education and religion, and the ex medical.

                    They recommended that the ex seek some sort of parenting class and/or therapy.

                    I am going to prepare an Offer to Settle based off this report, and states some recommendations regarding medical related wishes for our daughter. If she cannot agree it should clearly show the ex's inability to make a final decision regarding medical related issues. If she does agree to them I will gladly agree to her making these decisions. If not, a fight for sole would be in order.

                    Ocl worker directly stated to the ex that she will be able to book dentist appointments, lol.

                    A little off topic, but while waiting for the ex to arrive. There was some discussion regrading members of the bar, and a new judge that had been appointed. The ex's lawyer said that this new judge is really young and was just a few years younger than herself, my lawyer then replied "That doesn't necessarily mean that she is young at all." My lawyer and I had a very good chuckle at her expense to set the mood.
                    if your ex has final say in medical then she has final say. You are basically saying that you will make suggestions on kids medical care and if she doesn't agree then that you wont allow it and go for sole. In reality you want all decision making from what you are saying.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      As they should.
                      Agreed!


                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      This is typical. Remember, doctors are professionals and they won't do anything stupid. Also, there is more that someone can screw around with when it comes to school. Like moving the school out of jurisdiction. Medical there is a very well trained professional who is ultimately guiding parents through it all. They also can and will ignore the order if they feel their patient is in need of proper care. Doctors are not beholden to the court order.
                      I know the ex is wanting to move out of the province, would this stop her. I would like D5 to continue in the school she is in until high school.


                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      Don't worry about what they recommended for the other parent. Look at what they recommended for you.
                      They recommended this for both of us, but OCL already knew I have been doing such things to minimize the effects on D5. OCL even stated many recommendations to both of us that I have been stated to them and even started off with a line directly from my OCL application. I can't wait to get my hands on the final report.


                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      You can really screw up the educational stuff. That is why you were given that.
                      Thank god,lol.

                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      I would simply recommend you put forward a offer to settle that is exactly the same as the OCL report. 50-50 access. joint custody in the model of parallel parenting and for any dispute resolution the matter goes to arbitration not court.
                      I will be working on one now to OCL report, but still looking for a good example so I don't rely to much on my overworked lawyer. I think they gave final say instead of arbitration because it would be hard for us to cover costs of this. May be good if the one that loses must pay for such costs?

                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      No need to fight any further than this. Glad to see the SteelCity OCL got a good wake up call after having their wings clipped.
                      I agree this is a win not only for me. I would like to thank this site,the Tips for dealing with OCL and Private Assessors thread, and the ones who stood here before me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                        if your ex has final say in medical then she has final say. You are basically saying that you will make suggestions on kids medical care and if she doesn't agree then that you wont allow it and go for sole. In reality you want all decision making from what you are saying.
                        Short version below:

                        I have to come to terms that I could live with this until D5 is 18. I will be sending OTS to OCL recommendation specs and if she doesn't' bite on that I will most likely address some issues with the current "clinic" D5 is at. Mainly I believe this decision was made due to the ex stating that this has been her doctor since birth. This is true however, D5 has seen this doctor 6x in her first two years. After that she has seen this doctor for close to 6 more times until now. She has been to this clinic but always gets a different doctor, some of them are students or in training that she has seen.

                        There has been concern as D5 wasn't up to date with her shots when I was told she was. I brought D5 records to my new doctor and they confirmed that she wasn't, so I booked appointment so she wouldn't miss a day of school.

                        The ex even stated today in our disclosure meeting that she wishes to expose D5 unnecessary treatments and therapy for no valid reason and I have been told by D5's doctor that this should not be done and both parents should work on themselves, I have done this

                        I am of aboriginal decent and so is D5, my ex is not. We believe in certain type of healing alongside with medication. My ex think over prescribing antibiotics for children is great and has forced doctors to give them even when they strongly disagreed with it. The current clinic she is at does this and even allows you to request almost anything you would like for any reason. My current doctor would never allow this and she would see the same practitioner every visit.I would like to see if she would even listen to the pros and cons of each doctors office or just dictate how she has been until our separation.

                        My new doctors has almost everything on site. I have been treated for by a practitioner, dentition, traditional healer, foot care specialist, diabetes specialist, got retinal scans, have reflexology, and even been recommended wine from the Sardinia region of Italy all so I can live to be 100 and be around for D5.

                        The ex hasn't even made a dentist apportionment or eye appointment in the last year as recommended, and I have done all this too.

                        It may sound like I want it all however; if you knew, it would be more like the ex wants nothing more than a paycheck.


                        Short version: Have you ever tried reasoning with a wall?
                        Last edited by SteelCityDad; 09-12-2016, 11:35 PM. Reason: Added short version

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You mention that you are of "aboriginal descent" and go on to talk about traditional vs. non-traditional medicine. Can you articulate if you are First Nations, Metis and if you have had the benefit of an aboriginal/First Nations/Metis representative or counsellor through your litigation?

                          Have you adhered to non-traditional Native practices your entire life or is this something new? Have you consulted with your Elders on your predicament?

                          Have you alerted your daughter's current physicians (old one and new one) to your traditional beliefs?

                          When attending a medical clinic it is not unusual for patients to be seen by several medical interns/students but they are under the guidance and direction of a certified medical doctor. What specifically is the medical procedures that you are not in agreement with?

                          In one of your first posts you mentioned an incidence where your ex was intoxicated and unable to effectively parent. Do you believe your ex has an alcohol or drug addition problem? If so, have you raised your concern with a medical practitioner?

                          There was quite a terrible case not long ago in Alberta where a couple has been incarcerated for letting their child starve to death (among other things). This is attributable to the religion that the couple prescribed to. It stands to reason that many people in "the system" are vigilant about parents who dismiss use of antibiotics and vaccinations. In this situation you should seek direction from your Elders, Native Liaison person to help you decide the best way to present your position on medical care.

                          Good luck!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SteelCityDad View Post
                            I am of aboriginal decent and so is D5, my ex is not. We believe in certain type of healing alongside with medication.
                            I believe that Hogwarts provides the best type of alternative healing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              You mention that you are of "aboriginal descent" and go on to talk about traditional vs. non-traditional medicine. Can you articulate if you are First Nations, Metis and if you have had the benefit of an aboriginal/First Nations/Metis representative or counsellor through your litigation?
                              First Nations, I have not had a court worker. I will if this matter returns to court.


                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Have you adhered to non-traditional Native practices your entire life or is this something new? Have you consulted with your Elders on your predicament?
                              Something rather new, but have practiced some parts my whole life. I have consulted my elders today.

                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Have you alerted your daughter's current physicians (old one and new one) to your traditional beliefs?
                              Yes, the old doctor at one time asked me who is Mongolian when I brought up an issue.


                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              What specifically is the medical procedures that you are not in agreement with?
                              Over prescribing antibiotics for next to no reason when topical ointment or nothing could resolve issue. Ex not willing to follow doctors orders. Privacy concerns at old doctors. The ex stated she would like to get D5 therapy at our disclosure meeting, old doctors directly advised against this when I brought forth this concern months prior and stated both parents should go first before anything is done with D5 head. The ex is looking to get this done ignoring doctors recommendations and only I followed threw on their recommendations.

                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              In one of your first posts you mentioned an incidence where your ex was intoxicated and unable to effectively parent. Do you believe your ex has an alcohol or drug addition problem? If so, have you raised your concern with a medical practitioner?
                              No.

                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              There was quite a terrible case not long ago in Alberta where a couple has been incarcerated for letting their child starve to death (among other things). This is attributable to the religion that the couple prescribed to. It stands to reason that many people in "the system" are vigilant about parents who dismiss use of antibiotics and vaccinations. In this situation you should seek direction from your Elders, Native Liaison person to help you decide the best way to present your position on medical care.
                              That is a terrible story that happened there. That will never be my case as I believe in the use of antibiotics and personally am on some now. My view is that they should be prescribed when needed not when a client causes a seen to get them prescribed as when they are really required they may not be as effective or effective at all. I also believe that they should be taken as the practitioner prescribes and not stop taking them once you feel better as the ex does. My views on vaccinations is that people should be kept up to date as I have made sure D5 and myself are, and I do not agree with how they are done in the school nowadays and should be left to your practitioner to administer them.

                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Good luck!
                              Thanks! I am going to do what Tayken has mentioned; not fight and try to settle, as I already have what I want. The only thing that may be hard to handle is if the ex wants to start messing with D5's head. If she does not wish to settle as per OCl recommendations than I may make my points of view known.

                              Comment

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