Disney vacation

[onefedupmom]

Hi there. I've been following this forum for over 5 years and finally decided to post... in need of some opinions.

My boyfriend and I are both divorced, living together and both have children. My 2 living at home are 10 and 7, his children are almost 4 and 5 years old. We decided we wanted to take the four children on a vacation to Disney World this year however his ex not consenting to the trip.

Her first issue was that SHE wanted to be the one to take them to Disney first. How dare he not respect her feelings. She actually cried for approx half hour asking how he could do this to her. Because of her financial situation she isn't even able to take the kids herself anytime soon anyway.

Second, we orignally had planned on leaving Sept 9 at the beginning of school when crowds are low and it's more affordable. The beginning of school is usually review and we had planned on bringing school work anyway so they wouldn't fall behind. She refused because the 4 year old is starting junior kindergarten. So to apease her we change the date to Aug 22 so we would be back early enough to allow for some downtime before school starts.

Then she says they are much too young to handle such a high activity trip. He tried explaining to her that we will only being doing Disney for 3 days as we are renting a house with a pool for the kids to enjoy. the rest of the days we will be exploring Florida. The exact plan is not in place yet however it still involves naps and quiet time which is what she was worried about.

It's too long of a drive and She doesn't trust we will keep them in their car seats.

Two drivers who are not accustomed to driving long hours through the night in unfamiliar terrian is extremely dangerous for everybody in the vehicle. He explained to her the vehicle we are driving has GPS and he has driven in unfamilar terrain countless amount of times as well as driving through the night twice. Of course we would stop if need be.

The 5 year old would be extremely disappointed that the 10 year old would be able to go on rides he can't. And that there is no way we could make him understand why he can't. She says it's basic psychology. Once again, he assured her that Disney has sooooo much more to offer than rides and in no way would he make him suffer. We would do things in the best interest of the kids. This would actually be a learning opportunity for him.

They're too young, they won't remember it anyway. Wait until next year.

The ratio of children to parent is 2 to 1, and not enough. What if the children got lost?

Its too far away, period. What if something happened? She woudln't be ableto get there fast enough. They would definitely want their mother if they got hurt. She remembers coming from a divorced family travelling with her father and all she wanted was her mom. The kids will feel trapped and home sick being away for 1 full week. 2 years ago, she left the kids with us for 1 full week while she went on a Mexico vacation. So its ok for her to go to mexico without the kids? What if they had gotten hurt then or missed her terribly? (Which they didnt)

She says my boyfriend is way too active, how on earth would the kids be able to keep up with him? Reassured her that obviously we would be going at the kids pace, they wouldn't be running around trying to constantly catch up to their dad. geez.

And also the kids are sooooo young they will get tired of walking. Yes, that's why we are bringing a stroller.

This is a very summed up version. Sorry it's so long. I guess my question is, are we fighting a losing battle given their age? We are prepared to take the issue to court to get a court order for travel.

All we want is to take our family on a vacation to Disney. It's not to hurt her or anything like that. We know the kids would love it.

[Janibel]

Just my opinion here. Seems like the mother is having issues with her own insecurities? She's probably disappointed that SHE can't afford to do this herself - or that she would have wanted to be in your position.
If the kidlets have the opportunity to go to Disney - good for them (this is not child abuse lol).
You're a mother yourself and have managed to raise 2 of your own without anything dramatic happening - she has no reason to be so fearful.

[Links17]

She is worrying about things that is natural for a parent to worry about but divorce court doesn't give a crap under the basic concept that each individual parent is allowed to make whatever decisions they want for each child and unless she can prove a real danger she loses.

How are you arranging the driving?

[Beachnana]

What does your separation agreement say about travel permission. Usually states that consent will be given and not unreasonably withheld. So push for consent. If not you can go to the judge and ask that consent be dispensed with. Its your time, your vacation. Mom needs to get over it. If she stops you from this vacation domyou. Then say no to her when she plans a vacation. Ridiculous. Plus children can cope with more than one trip to Disney. Nshe can take them when they are older and she can manage the trip.

[engineer]

Some of her concerns are a bit silly. The disappointment that the five year old will feel over not getting to go on a big ride will hardly cause a psychological scar, and one could argue that it is a life lesson - rules apply even if you don't like them. In my own family, my kids are 7 years apart. If I had taken that attitude, neither child would have ever been able to do anything, ever. And no, they won't remember all of it, just snippets. Some things are just plain fun and for the moment. They will remember the feeling.

Some of her worries are pretty real, though. Kids do wander off, especially when there are lots of things to see and do. As a mum, I can see why this would be worrisome, and that it probably has nothing to do with competence on your part.

My oldest went to Disney when she was 12 with a friend and her family. My cell provider didn't have a way to get US minutes on her phone so her friend's mother assured me that she would have my daughter call home as soon as they arrived. 3 days later, no call.

I wasn't worried that these parents would lose her. I wasn't actually worried about anything, until I didn't get that safe arrival call.

I called the travel agent that booked everything, got their hotel info, phoned it, and the mother's reply was "oh, sorry, she asked if she could call you a couple of times, but the rates are so high that I told her it was ok just to wait until we got back home." I was PO'd, needless to say.

If your BF and his ex communicate reasonably well, would he be open to texting her while on the trip, just to let her know all is well, or having the kids phone her once or twice?

Her worries are natural, and these kids are young. Offer to keep in touch while you are away. It is a good thing for the kids to see as well, including yours - we all have the responsibility to let the people that care about us know that we are OK.

[onefedupmom]

The separation agreenment is quite vague when it comes to summer vacation. It just states that they shall share holidays and summer vacations and mutually agreed upon. that's about it.

As for how we are driving. We haven't 100% figured that out. The vehicle itself is roomy with dvd players, as well we will bring lots of activities, snacks etc. Lots of stops will be made for bathroom breaks, eating and stretching and if need be we would stop for the night all depending on how the kids are. We were thinking of leaving approx 4pm on a Friday and they would hopefully sleep the majority of the night time hours to pass the time for them. As well, my boyfriend and I would take turns driving to avoid the 'dangerous driving' she was so concerned about.

We have also offered to keep in touch and the lines of communication open while we are there. texts, phone calls, skype, and pics. And we have said it over and over. We have no problem with that.

I am a mother and know I would be worried about my children as well. I just feel like she over protective though. The kids will be with their father on a vacation to Disney not going on a field trip with a stranger.

[stripes]

You would seriously go to court over ... Disneyland? Please, no.

If your boyfriend's agreement says trips with kids have to be "mutually agreed upon", and she's not agreeing, then you have your answer. There's no mutual agreement, therefore you can't take the kids. You may think she's being unreasonable (she might not agree), but your boyfriend agreed to the terms of the separation agreement and he has to honour it. He can try to reach a compromise with her by offering terms that she might accept - daily texts, not driving all night - but if she ultimately says no, it's no.

Move on. Plan a different vacation. You don't have to visit an overpriced American theme park to make memories for your kids.

Save your court battles for things that actually matter - health, education, safety, access and financial support. If I were a judge and I had to deal with a father who wanted me to force the mother to agree to taking the kids to Disneyland, I wouldn't be too happy.

[DunnMom]

You would seriously go to court over ... Disneyland? Please, no.

If your boyfriend's agreement says trips with kids have to be "mutually agreed upon", and she's not agreeing, then you have your answer. There's no mutual agreement, therefore you can't take the kids. You may think she's being unreasonable (she might not agree), but your boyfriend agreed to the terms of the separation agreement and he has to honour it. He can try to reach a compromise with her by offering terms that she might accept - daily texts, not driving all night - but if she ultimately says no, it's no.

Move on. Plan a different vacation. You don't have to visit an overpriced American theme park to make memories for your kids.

Save your court battles for things that actually matter - health, education, safety, access and financial support. If I were a judge and I had to deal with a father who wanted me to force the mother to agree to taking the kids to Disneyland, I wouldn't be too happy.

This is a tongue and cheek comment right? ... Are u saying if one neurotic, control freak of a parent wants to dictate how another parent runs their lives after divorce than that's ok ??! Please tell me this isn't so Stripes!!!

A PARENT (custodial or not) has every right to take their child on a VACATION without interference by the other ... This situation (IF as the OP states it) reeks of control, jealously and insecurity issues and with the kids' being as young as they are NEEDS to be nipped in the bud. MOM OR DAD has a absolute right to take their child on a vacation unencumbered by the other parents insecurities

[Serene]

Omg this sounds like our trip lol. Mom actually refused to "allow us to drive" initially - it isn't her choice.

We drove straight thru with four kids. We had a lovely time. That is until mom called sometimes up to 6 times a day. I might as well put her in the van and took her with too! I point this out because if she is being a nuisance now she might do that while you're away too. It ruined my vacation. She kept kids on phone for long periods of time even when they said mom we want to go now....

Ugggg I hate stupidness.

[stripes]

This is a tongue and cheek comment right? ... Are u saying if one neurotic, control freak of a parent wants to dictate how another parent runs their lives after divorce than that's ok ??! Please tell me this isn't so Stripes!!!

No, I'm saying that if a separation agreement says that mutual agreement is needed to take the children out of the country, and mutual agreement is not present, dad is out of luck. Dad may think mom is neurotic and controlling; mom probably thinks dad and girlfriend are irresponsible (and controlling - everybody thinks their ex is controlling). However, mom is within her rights (just as dad would be within his rights to say no if mom wanted to take the kids somewhere he didn't approve of).

If dad (and girlfriend) wants to take mom to court every time he doesn't feel like following the agreement he signed, what was the point of the agreement? There are good reasons to go to court, but "I must take my kids to Disneyland!" is not one of them.

[Beachnana]

No, I'm saying that if a separation agreement says that mutual agreement is needed to take the children out of the country, and mutual agreement is not present, dad is out of luck. Dad may think mom is neurotic and controlling; mom probably thinks dad and girlfriend are irresponsible (and controlling - everybody thinks their ex is controlling). However, mom is within her rights (just as dad would be within his rights to say no if mom wanted to take the kids somewhere he didn't approve of).

If dad (and girlfriend) wants to take mom to court every time he doesn't feel like following the agreement he signed, what was the point of the agreement? There are good reasons to go to court, but "I must take my kids to Disneyland!" is not one of them.

The posters reply about their agreement only stated that they need mutual agreement on vacations. i take that to mean the timing. What weeks and how many each will have. Nothing was indicated that they needed mitual consent regarding travel tomthe states. The ex is playong a stupid game here. If she denies this trip because she is jealous. Lets face it, that is why she is denying it. Then when she wants to take a trip she needs to get his consent. Surley the intent of a vacation consent clause is to keep the other parent informed, agree on dates, so they are fairly shared, ensure plans are not made on the other parents time and plans do not conflict. Its really communication. It is not meant to allow one parent to dictate where the other,parent can vacation. I would fight this as it is a dangerous path to follow. What? So next time she can plan their vacation for them so she can be happy with the plans. Perhaps she would like to tag along!

[onefedupmom]

The posters reply about their agreement only stated that they need mutual agreement on vacations. i take that to mean the timing. What weeks and how many each will have. Nothing was indicated that they needed mitual consent regarding travel tomthe states. The ex is playong a stupid game here. If she denies this trip because she is jealous. Lets face it, that is why she is denying it. Then when she wants to take a trip she needs to get his consent. Surley the intent of a vacation consent clause is to keep the other parent informed, agree on dates, so they are fairly shared, ensure plans are not made on the other parents time and plans do not conflict. Its really communication. It is not meant to allow one parent to dictate where the other,parent can vacation. I would fight this as it is a dangerous path to follow. What? So next time she can plan their vacation for them so she can be happy with the plans. Perhaps she would like to tag along!

I agree. Here is what the agreement reads exactly.

HOLIDAY PERIODS
The applicant and respondant shall share equally in the care of the children for all holiday periods including Christmas, Easter Halloween and Mothers Day, Fathers Day and Summer Vacation, and such times shall be agreed upon between the parties.

So as you can see, it mentions only about timing NOT where. At this point it is so much more than just a DISNEY vacation. It's the principal. The kids should not have to suffer or be left out because of her insecurities. Taking it a further step is to prevent stuff like this happening in the future.

[Serene]

We are in court next week about and for this. Sharing equally apparently doesn't mean equally to mom. She had last 3 victoria day weekends and again refuses to give it to us this year....and equally always means more for mom and less for dad. getting tired of this and the hoops we have to jump through most every time...

[FB_]

You have two options.

1. Get her consent.
2. Take her to court.

My ex was refusing consent for a cruise I booked for my kids with their Grandfather.

I stuck to my guns and put it in my court documents (no agreement at the time) I had my case conference 5 days before the trip. The trip was discussed and the DRO had some strong words for her about her "concerns". She signed on consent and we now have a very well worded section in our agreement/court orders about travelling with and without the kids.

If you do take her to court you would most likely win and get costs.

If you are serious send her a registered letter with all the details. In the letter enclose the permission to travel letters for her to sign and get notarized. Tell her you will reimburse her the $30 - $50 it costs to notarize once it's returned. Tell her she has 14 days to return the notarized documents to you. Then state if she refuses to sign or you do not receive the permission to travel back within the specified timelines you will proceed with a court application asking for costs.

If she refuses make a court application and send her an offer to settle.

[HammerDad]

You would seriously go to court over ... Disneyland? Please, no.

If your boyfriend's agreement says trips with kids have to be "mutually agreed upon", and she's not agreeing, then you have your answer. There's no mutual agreement, therefore you can't take the kids. You may think she's being unreasonable (she might not agree), but your boyfriend agreed to the terms of the separation agreement and he has to honour it. He can try to reach a compromise with her by offering terms that she might accept - daily texts, not driving all night - but if she ultimately says no, it's no.

Move on. Plan a different vacation. You don't have to visit an overpriced American theme park to make memories for your kids.

Save your court battles for things that actually matter - health, education, safety, access and financial support. If I were a judge and I had to deal with a father who wanted me to force the mother to agree to taking the kids to Disneyland, I wouldn't be too happy.

This is absurd.

I've read further, and I also agree that the vacation clause in question or relates to timing. The notion that you need the other parents consent to what you actually do during your vacation is nonsense.

And yes, this is a matter that courts see regularly. Where one parent plays gatekeeper with passports/consent letters for vacations etc. In most instances the parent that plays gatekeeper without solid reasoning gets ordered to a) provide their consent or b) have the need for their consent waived (possibly permanently) AND gets hit with costs for being unreasonable.

The OP's request for a travel consent letter for the two kids to go to Disney is not unreasonable. The even made accommodations to their timing to pacify the ex. The ex continues to be unreasonable with their own insecurities. From here I'd do this:

1. get all the details of the trip in order.
2. prepare the travel consent letter setting out all the details for the ex's signature.
3. prepare a registered letter to the ex enclosing the consent letters respectfully requesting that she review and arrange for them to be signed and returned to you by June 1. That taking the children to Disney is in the kids best interests as it provides them with quality family and bonding time. That you will ensure all reasonable precautions are made to ensure the children's safety. That she has the required contact details should she wish to communicate with the children during the vacation.
4. Once June 1 rolls around, if you haven't received the letters, you send a followup to her, enclosing another copy (just in case she lost the last), asking that she sign and return them by June 15. That should she refuse to sign, you will have to escalate your request to the courts.

The ex is using emotional reasoning to be difficult. There is no reason the kids can't go. It will be a fun time for everyone. The ex just can't get over themself to see that.