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  • Benefits

    Hello all,

    I have two questions

    Can I remove my stbx from my benefits before the divorce?

    and

    Are costs of having kids on benefit plans S7?

    my STBX currently has a "Family" plan which the entire family (including me) are covered at an annual cost of $429.26 (per paystub). Her plan covers all medical and dental @ 100%. The dental has a $1500 / year max.

    my current plan at work is not family but on an individual basis. Currently I have self + spouse on my medical 80% and myself and son on my dental (50% - 70%) at a cost of $130.00 / year. The kids were never on my plan as it was pointless to pay for duplicate coverage. We added my son to my benefits last year as he had some required work above the $1500 max. My stbx is on my medical plan as most of the cost is covered by my employer for a +1 only and there were some things such as massage and chiro that was covered under my plan better than hers.

    I have requested in my court application that she keep the kids on her benefits. She has countered asking that I have the kids on my plan as well.

    I did the math and the cost of adding my kids and removing my stbx would be an additional $2183.00 / year which would pretty much duplicate the coverage that already exists. Adding them under Dental might be smart in the future should they require more work and braces and I'm willing to do that.

    So is the total cost of "All" the kids benefits a shared expense.

    My annual open enrollment starts in 2 weeks and is only 2 weeks long so I need to make some decisions. Or perhaps it should just go unchanged.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    Can I remove my stbx from my benefits before the divorce?
    Why bother? Do you need to add a new spouse (common law) on to your plan?

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    Are costs of having kids on benefit plans S7?
    PENNY WISE POUND FOOLISH!

    Honestly, look at the numbers you are quoting below... Unless the total family household income is less than 15,000 combined between both parents a judge will not be impressed with you for even bringing forward matters at a motion/trial/Conference about stuff worth less than a lawyers hour of time!

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    my STBX currently has a "Family" plan which the entire family (including me) are covered at an annual cost of $429.26 (per paystub). Her plan covers all medical and dental @ 100%. The dental has a $1500 / year max.
    Honestly... 429.26 a year? That is 35.77 a month we are talking about here. You actually spent time to write a message to the board about an expense that is 35.77 a month?

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    my current plan at work is not family but on an individual basis. Currently I have self + spouse on my medical 80% and myself and son on my dental (50% - 70%) at a cost of $130.00 / year.
    Again, lets look at the pure fact of the math...

    130.00 / 12 = 10.83 per month.

    What discount/saving are you going to get by removing the other parent from your plan now?

    Looking at it logically... (cause someone has to)

    There are 3 people.

    10.38 / 3 = 3.46

    So, even if the cost is equally divided between the three of you on the plan (just to simplify things) you would at most save 3.46 a month by removing the other parent or a smashing 41.52 per year!

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    The kids were never on my plan as it was pointless to pay for duplicate coverage. We added my son to my benefits last year as he had some required work above the $1500 max. My stbx is on my medical plan as most of the cost is covered by my employer for a +1 only and there were some things such as massage and chiro that was covered under my plan better than hers.
    WHO CARES? You are going to save maybe 41.52 at most if you are truthful in that your plan only costs you 130$ per year!

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    I have requested in my court application that she keep the kids on her benefits. She has countered asking that I have the kids on my plan as well.
    YOU BOTH HAVE TO HAVE THE KIDS ON WHATEVER PLANS YOU HAVE AS SUPPLIED BY YOUR EMPLOYERS!

    We are talking about a total cost of:

    130 (your plan) + 429.26 (her plan) = 559.26 combined per year for incredible coverage.

    Present any argument and waste a judges time at motion/trial/conference on this topic with as much detail as presented here and get ready for a judge to not be impressed. In fact, my opinion to the judge would be to make you pay costs to the court and the other parent for even bringing up such a petty matter before the court.

    Who advised you not to put the kids on your plan and to even request that in an Application? PENNY WISE POUND FOOLISH.

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    I did the math and the cost of adding my kids and removing my stbx would be an additional $2183.00 / year which would pretty much duplicate the coverage that already exists. Adding them under Dental might be smart in the future should they require more work and braces and I'm willing to do that.
    Please share your math and formulas on that number. You have claimed your insurance is 130 per year?

    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
    So is the total cost of "All" the kids benefits a shared expense.

    My annual open enrollment starts in 2 weeks and is only 2 weeks long so I need to make some decisions. Or perhaps it should just go unchanged.

    Thanks
    Having gotten to this point... One can only question what you are trying to get at here? If your insurance as stated and highlighted is 130$ / year and hers is 429.26 per year where did the other numbers come from?

    Good Luck!
    Tayken

    Comment


    • #3
      Just to point out I believe the OP was indicating the STBX's insurance cost $429 per pay period, not per year. This is over $11,000 per year.

      For comparison my plan costs about $380 per month but that is just for basic coverage.

      Comment


      • #4
        kablam!

        no but just leave it alone until everything is a legally finished.

        thats the best option.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
          Why bother? Do you need to add a new spouse (common law) on to your plan?



          PENNY WISE POUND FOOLISH!

          Honestly, look at the numbers you are quoting below... Unless the total family household income is less than 15,000 combined between both parents a judge will not be impressed with you for even bringing forward matters at a motion/trial/Conference about stuff worth less than a lawyers hour of time!



          Honestly... 429.26 a year? That is 35.77 a month we are talking about here. You actually spent time to write a message to the board about an expense that is 35.77 a month?



          Again, lets look at the pure fact of the math...

          130.00 / 12 = 10.83 per month.

          What discount/saving are you going to get by removing the other parent from your plan now?

          Looking at it logically... (cause someone has to)

          There are 3 people.

          10.38 / 3 = 3.46

          So, even if the cost is equally divided between the three of you on the plan (just to simplify things) you would at most save 3.46 a month by removing the other parent or a smashing 41.52 per year!



          WHO CARES? You are going to save maybe 41.52 at most if you are truthful in that your plan only costs you 130$ per year!



          YOU BOTH HAVE TO HAVE THE KIDS ON WHATEVER PLANS YOU HAVE AS SUPPLIED BY YOUR EMPLOYERS!

          We are talking about a total cost of:

          130 (your plan) + 429.26 (her plan) = 559.26 combined per year for incredible coverage.

          Present any argument and waste a judges time at motion/trial/conference on this topic with as much detail as presented here and get ready for a judge to not be impressed. In fact, my opinion to the judge would be to make you pay costs to the court and the other parent for even bringing up such a petty matter before the court.

          Who advised you not to put the kids on your plan and to even request that in an Application? PENNY WISE POUND FOOLISH.



          Please share your math and formulas on that number. You have claimed your insurance is 130 per year?



          Having gotten to this point... One can only question what you are trying to get at here? If your insurance as stated and highlighted is 130$ / year and hers is 429.26 per year where did the other numbers come from?

          Good Luck!
          Tayken
          Not exactly correct. I will try and clarify.

          Current Benefits:

          All figures are ANNUAL

          Medical - Comprehensive (80%)
          Myself + Spouse - Total Costs $1680.00 Employer pays $1360.00

          Son and Daughter not covered under medical.

          Dental - Basic (50% - 70%)
          Myself + Son Total Costs $530.00 Employer pays $720.00

          Spouse and Daughter not covered under dental.

          Total Cost $2210
          Employer Pays $2080.

          Cost to me $130.00

          Here is What I will require post divorce for me alone. I will require to upgrade to the Premium product because I won't have coverage anymore under stbx plan at 100%.

          Medical - Premium (95%)
          Total Cost = $1385.00 Employer pays $840.00

          Dental - Premium = $725.00 Employer pays $455.00

          Total Cost $2110.00
          Employer Pays $1295.00
          Total Cost to me $815.00

          Here is What I will require post divorce for myself and my two kids. Kids must also get Premium since that is what I require.

          Medical - Premium
          Total Cost $3463.00 Employer Pays $1620.00

          Dental - Premium
          Total Cost $2175.00 Employer Pays $1020.00

          Total Cost $5683.00
          Employer Pays $2640.00
          Cost to me: $2998.00

          My employer pays more for my own benefits than it does for the +1 or +2.

          Total cost with kids is $2998.00 - Cost of my benefits $815.00 = $2183.00

          So the total cost of having the kids on my benefits is $2183.00 / year.

          The total cost of my STBX having the kids on her benefits is $429.26 / year.

          Here "Medical" benefits are 100% and her "dental" is 100%. So what I'm trying to say is why would it make sense to pay $2183.00 more / year for coverage we already have with the kids on her plan alone.

          The only thing that would ever happen is going over the $1500 annual dental amount which has happened and I added my son to my dental benefits for that case. I could and would be willing to do that again in the future especially if braces are required.

          I am willing to pay for the proportionate cost of her benefits for the kids. I was just wondering if it was normal any why we should "waste" $2100 / year on duplicate coverage.

          I hope that clarifies my question.

          Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
            Just to point out I believe the OP was indicating the STBX's insurance cost $429 per pay period, not per year. This is over $11,000 per year.

            For comparison my plan costs about $380 per month but that is just for basic coverage.
            Her insurance (as quoted directly):

            are covered at an annual cost of $429.26
            His insurance (as quoted directly):

            at a cost of $130.00 / year.
            Top insurance for a 3 person family for supplemental insurance that is the top rate quote I could get per annum was: 4,440 (Dental, vision, drug, alternative health services, private room hospital, you name it... the works.)

            11,000 is impossible for an employer provided plan or any private insurance for health care to be that high in the province of Ontario.

            The "maths" does not compute.

            The per annum co-pay for company provided insurance is very common on a per annum basis provided by the OP.

            Good Luck!
            Tayken

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
              Just to point out I believe the OP was indicating the STBX's insurance cost $429 per pay period, not per year. This is over $11,000 per year.

              For comparison my plan costs about $380 per month but that is just for basic coverage.
              No it was annual for 4 people.

              It is family coverage so it will be the same cost for 3 people.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                kablam!

                no but just leave it alone until everything is a legally finished.

                thats the best option.
                I am allowed to change annually or upon a life event which would be a final divorce. This is an option but still doesn't change my question in the future.

                Thanks

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                  Hello all,

                  I have two questions

                  Can I remove my stbx from my benefits before the divorce?

                  Thanks
                  I asked my lawyer the same thing...

                  His reply was "Why? It will just make you look like an ass."

                  His advice was to leave her on until everything was signed, settled and delivered...then take her off my company benefits with plenty of notice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                    Not exactly correct. I will try and clarify.

                    Current Benefits:

                    All figures are ANNUAL

                    Medical - Comprehensive (80%)
                    Myself + Spouse - Total Costs $1680.00 Employer pays $1360.00

                    Son and Daughter not covered under medical.

                    Dental - Basic (50% - 70%)
                    Myself + Son Total Costs $530.00 Employer pays $720.00

                    Spouse and Daughter not covered under dental.

                    Total Cost $2210
                    Employer Pays $2080.

                    Cost to me $130.00

                    Here is What I will require post divorce for me alone. I will require to upgrade to the Premium product because I won't have coverage anymore under stbx plan at 100%.

                    Medical - Premium (95%)
                    Total Cost = $1385.00 Employer pays $840.00

                    Dental - Premium = $725.00 Employer pays $455.00

                    Total Cost $2110.00
                    Employer Pays $1295.00
                    Total Cost to me $815.00

                    Here is What I will require post divorce for myself and my two kids. Kids must also get Premium since that is what I require.

                    Medical - Premium
                    Total Cost $3463.00 Employer Pays $1620.00

                    Dental - Premium
                    Total Cost $2175.00 Employer Pays $1020.00

                    Total Cost $5683.00
                    Employer Pays $2640.00
                    Cost to me: $2998.00

                    My employer pays more for my own benefits than it does for the +1 or +2.

                    Total cost with kids is $2998.00 - Cost of my benefits $815.00 = $2183.00

                    So the total cost of having the kids on my benefits is $2183.00 / year.

                    The total cost of my STBX having the kids on her benefits is $429.26 / year.

                    Here "Medical" benefits are 100% and her "dental" is 100%. So what I'm trying to say is why would it make sense to pay $2183.00 more / year for coverage we already have with the kids on her plan alone.

                    The only thing that would ever happen is going over the $1500 annual dental amount which has happened and I added my son to my dental benefits for that case. I could and would be willing to do that again in the future especially if braces are required.

                    I am willing to pay for the proportionate cost of her benefits for the kids. I was just wondering if it was normal any why we should "waste" $2100 / year on duplicate coverage.

                    I hope that clarifies my question.

                    Thanks
                    Some clarification... As we can see, it isn't 11,000 a year for her plan.

                    Your employer co-pay sucks but, isn't awful and isn't worth the fight in court.

                    Question, who's birth date is first on the calendar year? Yours or the other parents?

                    For any claim generally on supplemental insurance, the parent who's birth date is first (say hers is January and yours is June) it would be her insurance provider that pays first. Then, any additional not covered by her plan would be paid by your plan.

                    If her plan covers 100% of the expense it doesn't matter and you would never see a cost.

                    Only person you need on your insurance really is the child in question really. As the other party has insurance and has had insurance... the issue won't even come up. Also, as the child is the one who is INSURED on her plan, you can provide the name and address and still get drugs under the plan which insures the child under her insurance.

                    Again, remember the insurance is for the CHILD and not for the PARENT. So you can walk into any pharmacy and provided the information they can locate the insurance and fill the script on the CHILD'S insurance plan. Same goes for dental.

                    Unless you are restricted by court order to not take your child to doctors or dentist you couldn't do this because you are in contempt. But, again, the provider doesn't know this and still will issue the prescribed drug and bill it to the CHILD'S INSURANCE PLAN.

                    Insurance provider doesn't care about your divorce. What they care about is their CLIENT who is the CHILD in question. Insurance providers actually want people to be healthy contrary to popular belief because they use less drugs and are more profitable. So the other parent can't stop you from using the CHILD'S insurance plan.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SingleDad12 View Post
                      I asked my lawyer the same thing...

                      His reply was "Why? It will just make you look like an ass."

                      His advice was to leave her on until everything was signed, settled and delivered...then take her off my company benefits with plenty of notice.
                      Well, if the other party has insurance then it isn't an issue and no one will care. It really would be a non-issue. But, if the other party in the matter doesn't have insurance then it would "make you look like an ass". The only time it would be done is if you are in an common law relationship. (Yes, you can be in common law with someone after separation and put them on your insurance.)

                      Suffice to say, after divorce the insurance provider will remove the other party. You could get married, you may move in with someone... There are all good reasons that don't make you look like a jack ass for changing the policy.

                      But, changing the policy after separation for the sake of doing it... Especially when the other party to the matter doesn't have insurance... Makes you look like a jack ass.

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FB_:

                        The court will not slap your hand for not having the children on your insurance for the child. It didn't exist prior to the separation and the insurance that they had prior to separation is still in place and usable.

                        If the other parent lost their job and insurance... Then you would be expected to get the insurance. But, obviously you would do that right?

                        But, as there is insurance in place, you are free to use it when needed for the child.

                        Not sure what all the fuss is about. The court won't order you to get insurance. How this kind of stuff even makes it into an application is beyond me. If she complains just offer to pay the portion of the child's insurance (from the 400+ she is paying) as an S7 expense in proportion to her total income just to make her look like an ass for complaining.

                        I would leave this issue well enough alone. There are more important issues than 2300 in insurance to worry about.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Some clarification... As we can see, it isn't 11,000 a year for her plan.

                          Your employer co-pay sucks but, isn't awful and isn't worth the fight in court.
                          Yes it does

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Question, who's birth date is first on the calendar year? Yours or the other parents?
                          Mine

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          For any claim generally on supplemental insurance, the parent who's birth date is first (say hers is January and yours is June) it would be her insurance provider that pays first. Then, any additional not covered by her plan would be paid by your plan.
                          Yes my plan would have to pay first.

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          If her plan covers 100% of the expense it doesn't matter and you would never see a cost.
                          Hers is 100% ... this is my point....what is the point in me paying for insurance. We never have except where noted regarding the dental for one year. Again STBX is High Conflict and knows my benefits are very expensive and is trying to get me to pay for useless benefits.

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Only person you need on your insurance really is the child in question really. As the other party has insurance and has had insurance... the issue won't even come up. Also, as the child is the one who is INSURED on her plan, you can provide the name and address and still get drugs under the plan which insures the child under her insurance.
                          Two children and both are currently covered under spouses 100% plan.

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Again, remember the insurance is for the CHILD and not for the PARENT. So you can walk into any pharmacy and provided the information they can locate the insurance and fill the script on the CHILD'S insurance plan. Same goes for dental.
                          My insurance has a drug card (95% Tier 1, 65% Tier 2 - Generic only). Hers must be paid up front and submitted electronically online and then is direct deposited into her account.

                          Also her's is 100% Tier 1 and Tier 2 and covers non-generic drugs.

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Unless you are restricted by court order to not take your child to doctors or dentist you couldn't do this because you are in contempt. But, again, the provider doesn't know this and still will issue the prescribed drug and bill it to the CHILD'S INSURANCE PLAN.

                          Insurance provider doesn't care about your divorce. What they care about is their CLIENT who is the CHILD in question. Insurance providers actually want people to be healthy contrary to popular belief because they use less drugs and are more profitable. So the other parent can't stop you from using the CHILD'S insurance plan.
                          understood.

                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't understand this whole argument... you have already stated that at times you need to use your benefits. In my situation, the children started off on my plan, then their mother found a job with benefits, so she added them and just over the summer my bf found a new job that offers benefits. The children are now covered under all three of us. Mom must claim first, then Dad and anything left over goes under my plan. Each plan covers 80%, there will never be a time the kids are not covered. Mom's plan does not cover braces, but Dads and mine do and vice versa...

                            If you have benefits available your children should be included. If you expect your benefits to be section 7, you need to consider what her benefits costs her as well... if you do not want to be responsible for benefits, you should be helping out with her costs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              FB_:

                              The court will not slap your hand for not having the children on your insurance for the child. It didn't exist prior to the separation and the insurance that they had prior to separation is still in place and usable.

                              If the other parent lost their job and insurance... Then you would be expected to get the insurance. But, obviously you would do that right?

                              But, as there is insurance in place, you are free to use it when needed for the child.

                              Not sure what all the fuss is about. The court won't order you to get insurance. How this kind of stuff even makes it into an application is beyond me. If she complains just offer to pay the portion of the child's insurance (from the 400+ she is paying) as an S7 expense in proportion to her total income just to make her look like an ass for complaining.

                              I would leave this issue well enough alone. There are more important issues than 2300 in insurance to worry about.
                              Yes kids have 100% on her plan already

                              I would of course add the kids if she lost her job. This is also a life event where I can change my benefits at anytime.

                              I have no issues paying proportionate cost of her benefits.

                              I agree there are more important issues. However I only get 2 weeks every year to make any changes to my benefits. I can make changes again upon a life changing event (divorce).

                              So maybe I will just leave it alone.

                              Comment

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