Child Support - where's 40%

[CatvsLion]

I was just wondering what % of access is needed for child support to decrease and how is that determined.

The more important factors are starting to get resolved and now I can spend some mind power on this issue. Current I'm paying full support based on my salary, but I have my daughter approx 35% of the time and the cost is increasing with gas prices and transportation and day to day expenses when I have my daughter.

I say approx becuause I'm not sure how one factors what the 'time percentage' is. If I have my daughter twice a week after daycare and return her to sleep at her mother's place is the full day counted at her mothers or with me.

Basically I have every tues & thurs for 3 hours, then every 2nd weekend from Friday 3:30 until Sunday 6:30. I know my x doesn't want to increase any time because of this, but we recently got a physchologist report stating that it wouldnt' be harmful for our daughter to spend 5 consecutive days away. He did state however that this was on special occasions and visits out of town.

Anyway, I want more time with my daughter that's for sure, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I also want a finiacial break as well. I pay over $500 in support and I'm in the red every month and almost can't afford to see my daughter as I have to pay an additional $200 in gas to get her and then food, diapers, wipes, and any entertainment as well which is probably another $200/month.

[Decent Dad]

First off, what a horrible schedule. Second there is no reason for this child not to be a) overnighting with you when she is with you and b) with you 50% of the time. What a mess.

Anyway, you do not have enough time to qualify for 40% (IMO). Also, judges hate the cases where you just top 40%. They want 50-50 and then still may not give you a break support-wise. Again this is my opinion/experience, and your milage may vary.

Now, they are cases where support is reduced when not over 40%. For example:

Citation: Tooth v. Knott, 1998 ABQB 1042 (CanLII)
Date: 1998-12-14
Docket: 4803-109539

[CatvsLion]

First off, what a horrible schedule. Second there is no reason for this child not to be a) overnighting with you when she is with you and b) with you 50% of the time. What a mess.

Thanks for the reply, I do agree that's it's not the best schedule but my x is unwilling to adjust it. That's another topic that I would like to ask - how do I go about getting the schedule changed if she won't agree to modify it or agree to overnights during the week. More specifically - what would work better for a 2 year old if not week on week off? I suggested 2 day blocks (tues & wed) with overnights and rotating weekends.

Would I be better off requesting a change in schedule with the courts or trying to get another psychologist meeting to adjust it? What are the chances of getting 50/50 or even modifying based on the above schedule being in place for over a year now?

[OB1]

In My case, I just went on days from afternoons. I am now orking 7:00 to 3:00pm. I had my Lawyer write my ex's lawyer informing them of the changes and that I am requesting shared parenting 50/50. I have not heard anything yet. My ex originally sent me a letter stating she will allow me to see the kids every Wednesday and every second weekend Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I don't agree with this, I would like them 50/50.
She moved out over a year ago and we still have not attended court or formalized any divorce proceedings.
I would also be interested in knowing if I have the children on my holidays all August or part of, I'm I still responsible to pay full child support. I will be taking my kids up north and figure it's going to cost me quite a bit.
Why should I have to pay when the kids are with me for those weeks.

[Decent Dad]

Fathers are complete idiots when it comes to kids and divorce. I say this because I was one of them. In so many posts to this forum, to other lists I am on and to countless father's I talk to... I hear this over and over and over again...

"My ex will not ALLOW me to have them..."

I will offer three options regarding access and custody. which one you choose depends on the status quo, any court orders, or how much pain you are willing to suffer legally, emtionally and financially.

1) Keep working on the ex to lengthen time. Use every possible reasoning, etc. Be nice. Be super nice.
2) Use the courts. Expensive and you most likely will lose... unles you can spend about 30K. Even then... you will most liekly lose unless you have your act together.
3) Take the kids. You want overnight. Overnight em. You want them for father's day... keep 'em.

I am obsolutely sick and tired of kids being treated like pawns... but in the end you must become the devil to defeat the devil. Oh... and your kid is screwed any way. And yes, I used my kid too. I am now no better than my ex.

Or option 4...

4) Walk away. Not great. Society will hate you (although society has completely no understanding of family law in this country... until they are in it and then it is too late). You'll hate yourself. Your kid will hate you. But, better than drinking yourself to death.

BTW, I have my child 50-50. I let my ex push me around for 6 months and then I tried option 1) and then went to 3) and used 2) to retain my child. Sucks.. eh.

[Decent Dad]

Thanks for the reply, I do agree that's it's not the best schedule but my x is unwilling to adjust it. That's another topic that I would like to ask - how do I go about getting the schedule changed if she won't agree to modify it or agree to overnights during the week. More specifically - what would work better for a 2 year old if not week on week off? I suggested 2 day blocks (tues & wed) with overnights and rotating weekends.

Would I be better off requesting a change in schedule with the courts or trying to get another psychologist meeting to adjust it? What are the chances of getting 50/50 or even modifying based on the above schedule being in place for over a year now?

Do you have a court order? Otherwise if you do, you must go to court to change the schedule. And for a two year old you might as well start a fire in your front lawn and begin burning money.

Do you have joint custody? Again is that ordered, agreed to... signed? Anything?

[CatvsLion]

Do you have a court order? Otherwise if you do, you must go to court to change the schedule. And for a two year old you might as well start a fire in your front lawn and begin burning money.

Do you have joint custody? Again is that ordered, agreed to... signed? Anything?

We have a temporary order for tues & thursdays with rotating weekends without overnights and to see a psychologist for overnights, which was the result from a case conference - the judge didn't make this decision, rather he told us to solve it - so this was a not so agreeable agreement outside the courtroom. Then there was a 4 way meeting that amended this to include overnights but no 3rd party. Then after the recent psychologist report, overnights were ok'd, with no concern for the 3rd party, and 5 day blocks ok'd as well. This isn't in writing yet in terms of an agreement just the report and our previous order stating we'd follow the report recommondations. He wouldn't comment on custody without a full assessment. So the last issue we have to deal with is custody. But at the same time I'm trying to get a better timesharing agreement as well.

Basically for joint custody I don't see her getting sole custody and neither did the psychologist, he was also supportive of more time for me but we didn't get into the scheduling in sessions - just overnights and concerns for my girlfriend's involvement and lightly on custody.

[Decent Dad]

Well I guess you are doing a combination of 1) playing nice and "the game" and 2) going through courts. You are in for a long ride. Don't start drinking...

I was very afraid of court appointed pyschologists. They carry too much weight and IMO, all these social workers, child assessors, pyschologists, etc., don't know their head from their ass. This also includes Family mediators. I can't remember how many I interviewed that were biased and never had kids too!

The last thing I ever wanted to get into was any SYSTEM. So you are in two SYSTEMS... Family Law and now social work. Hang tough.

BTW, you're being punished for the girlfriend.

[Sk8r]

to Decent Dad

The legal system is definitely imperfect and you obviously have a story to tell, but you are so incredibly bitter. I hope that you can find some peace with whatever your situation is and I hope that you manage to keep your bitterness from your children.

I live with both sides. My CL spouse pays ridiculous amounts of CS and SS + ALL Section 7 expenses and fights tooth and nail for reasonable access time. My ex complains that he doesn't have enough time, but I offered 50-50 until he moved out of town making that impossible so he asked for primary residence. He constantly complains about the burden of child support. (both my ex and my CL spouse have every other weekend and half of all holidays with their respective kids) Jointly, we have spent over $45K in the last year in legal fees, paid out $34,000 in CS/SS, north of $4000 in sec 7 expenses and received $9000 in CS. I am still in court. My partner will be returning to court as his ex has refused to meet several conditions of their agreement (like assuming the mortgage) Do the math and imagine the enormous debt we have. It sucks. But it sucks for EVERYONE, not just the non-custodial parents and certainly not just for the dads.

As for not paying CS at 40% - it becomes a question of who shoulders the expenses for the child. Although my ex and I have equivalent incomes, even if we had 50-50, it would be ME who buys the clothes, and the school supplies, and the sporting equipment. It would be me who would pay for sports and summer camp. It would be me doling out money for the movies, the swimming pool, the roller rink and the "I just have to have it" video games. Not all situations are equal and because of that, the law is imperfect.

One thing I CAN wholeheartedly agree with is whoever said that the general public is basically ignorant of family law. Until you are in it, you have no idea - and even then, you can't know each individual situation.

[Decent Dad]

Sounds like your a little pissed too...

BTW, I am the one who stated:

"...the general public is basically ignorant of family law. Until you are in it, you have no idea ..."

I will probably begin to reduce my anger (which I know I have) when we finish this round of court in the fall. Oh, I know I will be in court for 30 years, but I want this motion finished. But I will not stop my fight to have these laws changed. I have already sent a letter to have some of the CTB and UDCB changed and improved. I am trying to channel my energy into change. But I still get frustrated seeing the same damage occur over and over again. Even though everyone has their own version of the story, its all the same story.

BTW, I am fully aware of the collateral damage of a vindictive and selfish divorce. How it affects the kids, parents, future spouses, second families, extended families and so on. Fully aware.

[Sk8r]

not pissed

I would say exasperated rather than angry

What I do understand is that I am sure that if you spoke to my ex or my partners ex you would hear an equally frustrated story. While I think I am justified in my exasperation, I'm sure that they think they are justified too. We can't both be right. We disagree about what is fair and right and the law does little to make the process easier.

[Decent Dad]

Fair enough..

I am sure too that if I talked to my ex she would have equally compelling arguements and reasons for doing what she does. Matter of fact, she has quite convinced herself that she is right and is digging in the heals to prove her point. But, after four years of court, and hearing every arguement, reason, excuse, it is strictly a me, me, me attitude.

BTW, something that I do to test the waters of arguements is to present the situation to a variety of people to get an opinion. 95% of the time the response I get is "That has to be the most stupidiest, ridiculous thing I have ever heard of!" ...or... "How could anyone do that to a child!"... "How can someone be so mean!" and so on. It is not that I want to be right... I just want sanity. And family law in Canada is insane. It is beyond a Heller novel.

I have no issues with systems that are there to help people out. For example EI or the long term stay at home parent. But when you a) abuse that system and b) have the entire weight of a system fall on you... I get a little pissed off.