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  • need a little help

    My husband and I are separating and I think it will be civil. We want a separation agreement and he wants no lawyers but I have an appt with one in April. I am looking for some general info. We have been married 15 years and have two kids10- and 7. I make about 45k and he makes aroud 110k we will share custody 50/50. When I go to the guidelines if you take what he would pay and then I the difference is about $800 a month. Is this fair with 50% split on sports, daycare etc. Also the cash , house equity is split 50/50. Here is where is could get nasty. I want him to keep the insurance we have on each other, also keep me on his insurance through work and the final is splitting his pension. He has been working 21 years in the school board and brags about his pension. with being over 90k the last 5 years. Is there a way to value this without using an actuary and if not what info will I need. Also any math experts out there do you have an idea of what his pension for the 15 years would be worth and is it better to have him buy out my share or waite for retirement. he is 47 and I am 43 and with just house and cash not counting about 60k in Rsp's I will leave with about 200k

    Any other info would really help

  • #2
    can anyone give me some ideas about what a pension might be worth, just ball park, I am going to start looking at homes and want a decent house but one that will not put me in the poor house, kids still have sports school , trips etc. Also with around 800 a month in child support from what I can tell it means there will probably be no spousal support. But is he required to keep me on his insurance plan or does that have to be negotiated

    thanks

    My lawyers appt in after Easter in April

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe, as his spouse, you can inquire directly with his pension administrator and get the amount it was worth over the course of your marriage. It might not be exactly the same an actuary might calculate, but probably close enough to save the fee for getting the actuary.

      But don't count on using the pension to buy a house. Usually when a pension is split, the ex's half is put into a locked-in type RRSP, so that it remains a retirement asset, and not something you can use as a down payment. Your down payment money will come from the sale of your matrimonial home, or the buy out from your ex.

      Spousal and child support are separate. Whatever child support you receive is not used to determine if you are entitled to spousal support or not. Child support is for the children. Spousal support is for you. But you earn a decent living; did you make career sacrifices for his job? That will be mainly what determines if you get spousal support or not.

      One last thing. Don't do 50% split on section 7 expenses (daycare, sports,etc). Do it proportional to income, and changing annually, just like child support does. That is fairest.

      Comment


      • #4
        thanks, about the section7, I don't think I would get spousal from what I have read as if he is paying insurance and child support is non taxable the take home would be around 60/40 which is what the rate seems to be. As for the pension I would roll it over, its just he might want to buy me out and save his pension for himself. The house funds would be based on house around 400k with 40k mortgage, cash, investments etc. I think the new rules for teacher pensions is it has to be done by the pension board and not an actuary. I was just wondering what a ballpark amount would be . I know the last 5 years he has contributed around 10 or 11 k a year in pension and I don't know if you consider the boards matching it so say 20k a year for 5 years then down the line etc

        thanks

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi - I think you are oversimplifying it. There are issues with taxes (for e.g., RRSPs get discounted to after tax value etc) that you are not considering. Pension is locked (as stated) unless you take a lump sum at the sale of the house, but you have to get the number calculated properly, with the taxes taken into account. There is no way for anyone to give a ballpark figure without knowing his seniority etc... Invest the few hundred dollars in an actuary's evaluation or by the pension plan (whatever is the norm nowadays with the new pension bill). As for spousal support, don't discount it until you have made an actual budget of what you will need in the future (especially if you take the lump sum). For the short term. input your numbers on MySupportCalculator.ca to get a proper idea of the SS you'd be "giving up"...
          Last edited by torontonian; 03-18-2012, 12:25 AM. Reason: added info about Bill 133

          Comment


          • #6
            Break down the question.

            Comment


            • #7
              My thoughts ... based on (my) common sense and reading, not actual experience!

              Perhaps with the pension there is no need to get a value on it, as long as you can get the provider to split it 50-50 ASAP (so his post-separation contributions are not mixed in). I think a court order is required to get the provider to do this though.

              Did he accumulate any part of this pension before you were married? if so, then it gets more complicated, and there would need to be some way to determine what portion was accumulated during your marriage.

              Otherwise, a value would only be necessary if you were considering trading off your half of the pension for some other asset.

              Do YOU have pension/cpp that he would also take 50% of? That must be considered too.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the tax advice, I forgot about that, what I would like to do with the pension, is keep my rsp and spousal rsp's in the amoutn of 60K, and subtract that from my share of his pension, and what ever I am entitled to just roll it over into an rsp if possible right away with hopefully no tax withdrawls. I have read on the teachers pension site and I could get screwed in so many ways if I leave it in his pension and to pay me a portion when he retires

                Comment


                • #9
                  There is no tax on RRSP transfer at divorce time (there is a form to fill) - but again, the value of his RRSPs are minus HIS tax ratio and yours are at your tax ratio, slightly more complicated. Just let the lawyer tell you what will be what.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thanks, most of the financial issues, I can get my head around and have a good idea of what we have, his pension is the only thing I can't work around. He has been in the Ottawa Board for 19 years and the last 13 we were married and lived together a year before that. His last 5 years I know he has contributed between $9500 and $11000. per year so I know he has contributed at least $100,000k in the 13 years . I will have an actuary do the numbers but just don't know if when we have an actuary do it, does that include the money the board pays into the plan. After looking at some info on the pension board FAQ , I will roll over into my account or some other method, I will not take payments when he starts to collect. Also we have an RESP for the kids, we both agreed not to touch this and we will both contribute to it (max each year)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      should I ask my lawyer or see an accountant about the tax issues with respect to claiming the kids as dependants, camps, tax on cpp benefits and rrsp transfer pension etc. And if you had to do it all over again what are some changes you would have made to the financial parts of your agreement

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Personally, I wouldn't have sweated the small stuff - KEEP 13.1 simple, it changes all the time anyway. At the point you're at, I would read and educate myself. CPP credits division is done upon request, no worries there. RRSP transfer - pretty sure the bank you have them at can help you when the time comes. S7 (camp) is to be shared pro-rated after benefits are taken into account (I believe).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Alisaden, if you do an online search for sample separation agreements, that will give you a really good idea of some of the things you might want to negotiate into yours. There are always things you just can't think of.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            thanks for all the help and suggestions

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The pension laws have changed since January 2012. You can go onto th government website and/or google your topic and the list of changes will appear. The method of calculating the values are different from prior to January 2012. Lawyers and others are unsure of the "rules" . I am getting different information from my plan providers depending on who I speak to that day.

                              Comment

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