Is this a standard procedure?

[JB514]

Hi everyone! I finally had my 1st appearance where we had cs settled. However, I was taken aback by the other side stating that I owed retroactive CS. Let me also explain that it was not a demand that was done by my ex, but by a Social Services Representative on her behalf, so I presume that he new what he was talking about.

Please, Let me explain to make my situation clear.

Self employed. There is a Court Order from 2006 that states I pay this much. By the end of June of every year I was to provide the other side with my NOA for previous year. Consequent years After 2006 my income was lower than in that Court order, but I did not file any motions to reduce cs so not to aggravate the other side. I have no problem with that.

Fast-forward to present.

I am not in arrears with FRO. Paid every month.
2010 was my 1st year of making more than in the 1st court order. By the end of June of this year submit Tax returns for 2010 to my ex. My NOA were not available because there were doing manual assessment of my taxes. Provided the ex with a letter from CRA that returns were filed and being assessed.

My ex files motion to vary CS of previous Court Order according to CS guidelines in Aug of this year. Her application did not mention retroactive to whatever date.

So I go in prepared to settle for CS according to 2010 income maybe retroactive from the day she filed with courts.

Social Services guy states that I owe arrears of the difference of CS as of Jan/ 2010 for about $2000 because that was the year of higher income.

So how the heck does this work? NOA only available by early summer. FRO only enforces payments stated by Court Order. Until then I can't provide proof of income. So how can they say I am in arrears and did not fulfill my financial obligation when I always been on time with my payments, submitted financial disclosure on time, but still in arrears?

So does that mean that if I make less this year, lets say, and next year I receive my NOA for this year, I can claim that I have overpaid since Jan of this year and ask for that money back? I don't think so.

Maybe I am just confused by now I don't understand the process, so please let me know what this is all about. If you need more info let me know

Thanks.

[Berner_Faith]

Others will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe CS only changes after you receive your notice of assessment and what you pay for the year is based on the past years income. In my bf's seperation agreement it states that NOA are to be given to the other party by June 1st of each year and if there are any changes in CS this amount is to be paid starting July 1st. Which some years means he is paying more than he should be because of the previous years earnings and some years he is paying less than he should be because of the previous years earnings. I don't know how they can expect you to pay "retro" when you didn't have your NOA.

[JB514]

Thanks for your input ; ) In my case I don't think I could change payments without court order or consent of both parties because I pay to FRO. I also don't understand how am I in arrears. I can guaranty that if I came to court with my income in 2010 lower, the guy WOULD NOT say "Sir, you have overpaid since Jan of 2010. We owe you money". How can it be so one sided?

[Berner_Faith]

Welcome to Family Law and our Court Systems

My bf went through a similar thing...when his ex and him first broke up he was paying $600 a month in child support plus $50 for HER life insurance policy, plus his own... when they split it was because he relocated for work, the intention was to move the family to where his new employment was, but after a month of him working she decided she didn't want him to come home, took the house off the market and left him with basically nothing. She wrote up a draft agreement stating he would pay $600 a month in CS, he did not about 5 months because he had no clue about the law. As he started to become familiar with the law he realized he has been over paying by almost double. His current CS payments are $344 per month. His income was self imputed on what he expected to make this year... because of a variety of job changes his last 3 years were not reasonable. He had a very good job when they were still together, got laif off, found another job, got laid off and finally he relocated. This was due to the number of factories that closed down.

He took a hard loss in his income with this new job, but they thought it was going to be a new begining. Anyways I am getting off track... fastfoward about a year. The job he relocated for slowed right down to the point he was barely making part time wage, he was forced to go on OW and because there was no court order OW would not provide her with child suport. Once he found a stable job she tried to come after him for retro CS payments for the months he was on OW... what do you think her answer was when he showed her how much he over paid in those 5 months he was paying double? I told her to take him to court, but his income last year was was below was he personally imputed for this year.

Like I stated before, I don't think you are beind. CS is based on the previous years income and continues until it is reviewed annually (if that's how your SA works)

I am sure we will have a battle on our hands come his renewal time as looking at his scheduled hours until the end of this year he is only looking at $13,000 this year, not the $23,000 he stated. This is because he Manages a bowling center and because of weather this summer the sales dropped drastically, which affected his hours. His CS payments are basically going to be cut in half for next year, but he must continue paying the $344 until July 1st. He won't get any of the "over payment" back.

[Coop]

I hear you brother!

How can we adjust child support until we know exactly how much we made?

I just got my judgment back from trial and the judge found me in arrears because I didn't pay my 2010 child support based on my 2010 income. How am I supposed to know what I'm going to make until I get my T4s? (same for 2008 and 2009)

There needs to be a clear understanding that CS gets adjusted by a mid-year anniversary date for the following 12 months. If you lose your job, too bad. You made enough last year to pay for this year. And vice-versa, after those 12 months are over and you made 40% less by the next anniversary date...well CS will be 40% less, regardless in you started a new higher paying job.

This needs to be in a handbook, with clear concise examples. I'm a Computer Science/Mathematics grad...and I'm having a hard time following this.

Just my two cents.
D

[NBDad]

By the letter of the law, you owe arrears. You are technically supposed to calculate CS each time you get paid...however that's a pain in the ass, and is totally unenforceable via organizations such as FRO.

If the ex did not request updated CS, then arrears should go AT MOST back to the date of the court filing where she asked for the modification.

Your answer should essentially be that you have been following the existing status quo, and that the CS amounts are being paid as per the guidelines and the most recent notice of assessment. Indicate you agree to pay retro amounts back to July 1st of this year, due to the increased amounts earned.

You then request a modification to the order to include the following clause:

CS to follow the table guidelines, based on the NOA Line 150 amounts and to follow a JULY TO JUNE payment schedule.

CS to be calculated no later than JUNE 30th of each year, and each party agrees to provide the other their NOA no later than this date in order to determine the new CS amounts payable on July 1.

I believe your issue is that your order does not lay out the payment schedule. So to recap, I'd offer arrears at the new amounts back to July 1st of this year, as per your understanding of the way the payment schedule works and as per the existing status quo.

Then, go forward you exchange NOA's EVERY DAMN YEAR and update the CS amounts accordingly. Even if it's just a couple of dollars. That way you establish a status quo, and she can't pull this kind of crap in the future.

[JB514]

Thanks to all that responded!

NBDad- We have settled CS payments. They offered me a "Deal". I provided them with financial statement of my business for about half of this year 2011 (whatever I could prepare). They saw that this year I will be making LESS.

So the deal was-they will forget the arrears, but I can't vary my income for 2011 next year and have continue to pay at the rate of 2010. If I was to file motion to vary next year in accordance with 2011 income, the deal will be off and they will reassign my arrears for 2010. I'm sorry, but it sounds like a successful blackmail to me.

I just keep thanking God that I only had 1 child with that woman. My apologies if I sound bitter, but I think my ex has taken a free ride at tax payer's expense all her life. I have no problem supporting my child even though we have no relationship (see my other posts in regards to that-with a new update that my daughter sent me an email calling me nasty names). But when I am straggling to provide for my now family and my child from previous marriage, pay taxes at crazy rate, etc, my ex has never in her life reported income (she is a cleaner makes about at least 30 bucks an hour cash for cleaning private houses), is on every available social assistance/welfare there is since about 10 years ago, lives rent free at her parent's house (separate apartment), but claims she pays rent to increase her social assistance. She has more expendable income than most tax payers! And there is no way of proving that, so it looks like if my kid decides to go to college or university I will be screwed at the whole amount of extraordinary expenses. Constant spas, hair/nails salons, brand name clothing etc, etc....

Anyway... Sorry, I just had to vent. ; )