Post-secondary, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 calculations

[Beachnana]

So should this be included in a SA and at what age should you be including this? If the child is 4 now should you include it or allude to it or wait u till they are teens?

I was thinking it should be included now.

[momof2teenboys]

eldest is nearly 18 and youngest is 14. Yes - BIG reality check for all is needed.

Eldest is working a new job and will get additional hours this summer. If he wants residence he's going to have to save as much as he can if he wants it enough. I've suggested getting a used car - I think it'll give him the independence he's ready for and is much more cost effective. If we were still married I would be suggesting the same thing. Parents shouldn't be expected to take on more than they can handle just because it's the child's "wish".

Youngest and I have exhausted all options for transportation to this school. (carpooling, private school bus, rideshare etc were all researched - even special requests to school bus co were no goes) We're down to public transit (3 hours travel a day on 6 buses) or taxi. Taxi obviously is the more expensive but youngest will be looking for a used car for himself (and paying for it) once he's sixteen. He's much more practical with $ than his brother but the expectation that he leaves the house at 5:45am to get to school is really unreasonable. He's handling the workload (90+% average) so I'm doing what I can to figure the rest out.

[momof2teenboys]

So should this be included in a SA and at what age should you be including this? If the child is 4 now should you include it or allude to it or wait u till they are teens?

I was thinking it should be included now.

Given how difficult your situation is in getting the support paid...yup get it all worked out now. Your grandchild may even decide to go to post-secondary where his dad resides and the expense of going to school in the US can be insane.
Figure out all the options and know what your daughter will agree to and won't.
My agreement is not detailed enough. (We had written multiple offers that had more detail but he wouldn't accept any of them and this, still temporary, one was what we could agree on while sitting outside the courthouse)

[rockscan]

My partners lawyer told him it doesnt matter whats in his agreement, case law/jurisprudence are what sets the decision. His agreement is poorly written though and open to interpretation (his ex interprets it in her favour and he follows it to the letter).

Living in residence isnt all its cracked up to be and some kids sink rather than swim. Your son may do better being at home and it will teach him responsibility. Perhaps he can even help with his brother.

As awful as it is for the youngest, if he really wants this program than he will survive the travel. And there may be more options going forward.

We had one car growing up and scheduling who had to be where was a nightmare but we did it. My father paid nothing towards cs or school. We did it all ourselves. It taught us some very valuable lessons and your sons will see how much their father (doesnt) cares about them when hes unwilling to help on something as simple as transportation for school!

[momof2teenboys]

As long as I'm not legally responsible to pay for a share of residence costs...I'm good to just say no. I looked around for case law but didn't find much for a child living within commute of post-secondary. I'll pay my share of tuition/books/equipment etc and will even help him apply for OSAP this year so he can do it himself next time. He will likely be able to afford a nice little used car and will have to enjoy the freedom (and cost!) that provides.
Working my way through school the first time certainly helped me grow up. The second time is not as much fun!

[rockscan]

Youre probably getting better grades the second time though! Thats what I found!

Residence is only applicable if its necessary. You wont find case law on that specifically. The only law I found was the Lewi v Lewi case where kid could have stayed home but didnt and he was on the hook for a higher share of costs. For you, if residence is much more expensive than usual then its pretty easy to say no. If kid really wants to do it he will need to find the money.

Im not a lawyer though but you have to ask yourself if its worth at least $5000 in legal fees to fight it. Judges use the Lewi case for kids share of costs....

[Rioe]

Cost benefit analysis, as always.

Calculate what it would cost to live in residence without the commute but without 8 months of CS, and to live at home, with a lengthy commute and transportation costs, but still receive CS.

There are a lot of non-financial benefits to living in residence. Easy access to school facilities (library, gym, tutoring sessions, group project mates, etc) and ease of making friends come to mind right away.

This kid is going to spend 3 hours a DAY on a bus. Where it is hard to read and even harder to type. He'll be transferring buses twice a trip, in potentially horrid weather in winter. Buses may be delayed, causing him to be late for class, or an exam. A kid with 3 extra hours a day to focus on school may do MUCH better in his courses. Or he may be able to pick up a part time job on campus that helps pay his residence fees. His class schedule may be very wonky too. What if he has an 8:30am class, then hours and hours to spare, then a late afternoon class, or worse, an evening class? In residence, he could go study in his room, or have a nap if he had a late night, etc. He would also learn independence in residence, which might not happen if he lived at home where you could be relied on as his daytimer and deadline reminder and lunch packer.

[rockscan]

Cost benefit analysis, as always.

Calculate what it would cost to live in residence without the commute but without 8 months of CS, and to live at home, with a lengthy commute and transportation costs, but still receive CS.

There are a lot of non-financial benefits to living in residence. Easy access to school facilities (library, gym, tutoring sessions, group project mates, etc) and ease of making friends come to mind right away.

This kid is going to spend 3 hours a DAY on a bus. Where it is hard to read and even harder to type. He'll be transferring buses twice a trip, in potentially horrid weather in winter. Buses may be delayed, causing him to be late for class, or an exam. A kid with 3 extra hours a day to focus on school may do MUCH better in his courses. Or he may be able to pick up a part time job on campus that helps pay his residence fees. His class schedule may be very wonky too. What if he has an 8:30am class, then hours and hours to spare, then a late afternoon class, or worse, an evening class? In residence, he could go study in his room, or have a nap if he had a late night, etc. He would also learn independence in residence, which might not happen if he lived at home where you could be relied on as his daytimer and deadline reminder and lunch packer.

Youre mixing up the kids. The youngest is going to a high school with an international bauc. program and has to bus there three hours. The oldest wants to live in residence at school an hour bus ride. The residence is more expensive than other schools.

[Rioe]

Youre mixing up the kids. The youngest is going to a high school with an international bauc. program and has to bus there three hours. The oldest wants to live in residence at school an hour bus ride. The residence is more expensive than other schools.

Ah, so I am. Well, some of the concepts still apply, but the analysis needs the right data!

[climber9]

I agree with Rioe. There are big benefits to living in residence.

I had the choice of living with my parents and driving 30 min to school, or living in residence. I chose residence.

Living on my own taught me (fast tracked) responsibility and independence.

The savings on travel time and convenience were there too.

I made many solid life long friends.

I have friends who commuted and it was harder for them to connect with their university experience.

[roxyroller71]

I just have a question in regards to the RESP.
I (mom) opened one when my son was 3 months old, I paid into it , as my ex didn't want any part of assisting with it. We were together at this time.
We split just before my son's 1st birthday and I continued with the RESP.

My mom (my sons grandparent) actually automatically deposits money into my bank account of 200 bucks and it then gets moved into the RESP.
So now there is a nice chunk in there to help with school when my son needs it.

Ex fights on every issue. But there has been nothing addressed about RESP's or post secondary education. At one point there was mention that my ex wanted education addressed by RESP money first being spent then my ex and I split the remainder by 50/50 (or really 75/25, if that's the case). this was ignored and dropped at that time.

Am I going to be blind sided by this? We haven't even reached the point of future education.

Any thoughts?

[rockscan]

Is your name on it?

[roxyroller71]

Yes, and just my name.

[stripes]

Then (as I understand it), it's your money (not his or "ours") and you can use it all towards your share of university costs (75/25 or whatever). It doesn't have to be used up first, and then you and Dad split the remainder. (The exception is the amount of the annual federal grant paid into RESPs - that part isn't your money and so it would be used to reduce the costs of university that you and Dad split.

[Star7ontario]

RESPs

RESPs are broken down as follows:

RESP opened by grandparent, aunts, uncles, friends, relatives of the student are eligible as the student’s portion of the expense.

RESP opened by parents DURING marriage are eligible for the parents’ portion of the expense or may be transferred to the student.

RESP opened by parents FOLLOWING DIVORCE are eligible for that parents’ portion of the expense. For instance, mom opens RESP six months after divorce is finalized. This money is used for her share of the child’s expenses.

Grant money within the RESP that is provided by the government is withdrawn according to the eligibility above. It is not automatically transferred to the student.

Net cost
The net cost of the expense is considered after all tax deductions have been applied. Tuition is an eligible expense under the Canada Revenue Agency.
Moving expenses are eligible expenses under the Canada Revenue Agency.

Tuition is calculated according to the tax reduction. For instance, if tuition costs are $7000 and the tax benefit awarded for it is $2000, the net cost of tuition calculated in the split is $5000.

How to calculate the costs
Calculate the sum of the following:
• Tuition—either via a lawyer calculation or by completing a “dummy” tax form for the recipient parent. (Full cost of tuition less provincial grant less tax benefit).
• Books
• Residence/living expense fees (for a child living away from home)
• Equipment
• Transportation
• Food
• Additional eligible expenses not listed but considered eligible

Total cost of education divided by 3

1/3 of the cost is attributed to the child and paid via employment income, bursaries, federal grants, gifts from others, RESP from family members other than parents.

2/3 of the cost split proportionate to parent’s income similar to S7.

Example:
Total cost of education expenses--$15,000
1/3 cost attributed to child--$5000
$10,000 to be split proportionate to income—father’s share = 65% $10,000 x .65 = $6500

I'm sure I read in a case ruling that bursaries and grants counted toward the net cost, then each parent and the child were responsible for 1/3 at which time then the child could use loans and their savings as needed for their portion. This says the bursaries and grants go towards the student's portion.


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