Men/Father's right's support groups.

[mts1973]

I have nothing against these organizations, but in my situation, since my ex joined one of them, it made my life hell.

It seems that it is all one sided when it comes to these groups. My ex went in there claiming how screwed over he was. Living in his bubble, fabricating his stories to them. Well they gave him advice, and it cost him. It cost him looking like a fool in the courts, and cost him some of my lawyers fees.

All was fine until he joined. We could be friends by now, but now lots of damage has been done.

He had accused me of denying access to his children. (He thinks he can come and knock on the door any time. He did this once before and we were in the middle of a BBQ and made it very awkward, especially for the kids and company.

Another instance, he isn't a biological father to our eldest, and the father has never ever been in the picture. My ex has been involved in her life since she was 1 year old. He called her his own, and she called him daddy. (He and I were together 14 years and married almost 10 years) After we divorced and the court orders were made, concerning primary residence and access, he brain washed her to come live at his place, and her being 15 seen freedom and took the chance to go. Broke my heart. It only lasted a few months, she failed a semester because of this. So now after this mens' rights movement came into his life, he had tried to disown her, and wanted back all the child support he paid out, and dismiss all further responsibly for her.

So much has went on since he joined, too much to even write and think about!!!

What I wish, that these groups for men would screen, especially if there is an unstable mind of a story teller. He now thinks he is some martyr, because he was ordered to pay a part of my legal fees. He is posting all over that he going to protest to the courts by paying "his fine" in loonies. He thinks he paying some fine to keep him from coming back to court, and urging people to buy a book he wrote, to put towards his "fine"

Seriously, is there some main organization (Toronto based mainly), who I can write/call, and inform of this madness? They have a great cause, I know there are tons of vandictive women out there and men really need help to deal with it, Or is this really acceptable?

[HammerDad]

There are fringe elements everywhere. To me, this would be no different then a women's group promoting using false claims of abuse and such (women's shelters are notorious for this...). Yes, there are instances where there is truth, but you get the fanatics that want to push their agenda on others and twist them to using their tactics and eventually no one wins.

[mts1973]

Well either way men or woman's groups, I think there should be some sort of screening. How they can do this, I don't know (probably impossible) Maybe promote more mental counselling, rather teaching them how to attack . You are right no one wins, and the I believe the kids get hurt. They have enough on their plate with their new adjustment, they don't need to see parents hurting and attacking each other. Ty for the reply

[Pursuinghappiness]

mts1973:

I think you should chalk this up to a weak mind seeking solace in whatever method he can find. No different than a religious cult.

Its very typical in divorce for one side to try to demonize the other to anyone and everyone...including the children. Many people on this forum have had it happen to them.

Simply put...do your best to protect your kids since you sound like the more rational, stable adult and consider yourself very lucky for not being married to this weak minded, ridiculous guy anymore. You'll see a hundred similar stories on this site about vindictive, control freaks. He's obviously not doing himself any legal favors by engaging in this kind of stuff either...my stbx is doing the same thing and frankly, its done nothing but validate exactly the reason I'm divorcing him in the first place.

Otherwise, there's nothing you can do about it. They'll always be a club full of pathetic people looking for other pathetic people to join their ranks and make them feel better about being idiots. Just move along, take care of your kids and have a good life. Best wishes.

[FaithandMorals]

I am sorry that you have gone through this. People with extreme views can not be balanced. He is right that your children need their father but he has lost sight that your children equally need their mother.
You do not say anything about the history eg who has access and custody and whether the children are getting equal opportunity to be raised by both parents.
So far, I have found the book 'putting children first' to be helpful. I also found reading this decision useful CanLII - 2008 CanLII 3971 (ON SC)
since there is no gender issues.
Good luck.

[mts1973]

Some history

When he moved out, he wrote on paper that he wanted with the kids...every other weekend, and every Wednesday, Also what he would pay a month for both kids. We got that put legally by a mediator, he consented, and then I suppose it's a final court order. Split holidays/vacations. Calls when ever he wants and vise versa. He got all he asked for. The kids DO KNOW that ANYTIME they want to see their dad they can, I will not stop them. The kids are getting older busy with school and with their friends now. They don't want much to do with me, too cool for me. Except now the oldest doesn't want to see him at the moment, they had a falling out over a cell phone ("teenagers"..she upset that he would keep cutting it off if she wouldn't visit him) somehow I am the blame for that. Also, the youngest (soon to be 12) doesn't think it's fair her dad pays support for her sister, if she doesn't visit him. (wonder where those words came from).

I hope I am doing these posts right and not confusing anyone. To those who replied! Thanks for your time to write your reply!

[LostFather]

I have nothing against these organizations, but in my situation, since my ex joined one of them, it made my life hell.

It seems that it is all one sided when it comes to these groups. My ex went in there claiming how screwed over he was. Living in his bubble, fabricating his stories to them. Well they gave him advice, and it cost him. It cost him looking like a fool in the courts, and cost him some of my lawyers fees.

All was fine until he joined. We could be friends by now, but now lots of damage has been done.

He had accused me of denying access to his children. (He thinks he can come and knock on the door any time. He did this once before and we were in the middle of a BBQ and made it very awkward, especially for the kids and company.

Another instance, he isn't a biological father to our eldest, and the father has never ever been in the picture. My ex has been involved in her life since she was 1 year old. He called her his own, and she called him daddy. (He and I were together 14 years and married almost 10 years) After we divorced and the court orders were made, concerning primary residence and access, he brain washed her to come live at his place, and her being 15 seen freedom and took the chance to go. Broke my heart. It only lasted a few months, she failed a semester because of this. So now after this mens' rights movement came into his life, he had tried to disown her, and wanted back all the child support he paid out, and dismiss all further responsibly for her.

So much has went on since he joined, too much to even write and think about!!!

What I wish, that these groups for men would screen, especially if there is an unstable mind of a story teller. He now thinks he is some martyr, because he was ordered to pay a part of my legal fees. He is posting all over that he going to protest to the courts by paying "his fine" in loonies. He thinks he paying some fine to keep him from coming back to court, and urging people to buy a book he wrote, to put towards his "fine"

Seriously, is there some main organization (Toronto based mainly), who I can write/call, and inform of this madness? They have a great cause, I know there are tons of vandictive women out there and men really need help to deal with it, Or is this really acceptable?

You say everything was ok. But obviously everything was not ok. Maybe for you, but not for him. Did he have equal access to the children? Did he have equal say in what happens to them? It sounds like he was at least paying cs, what about spousal? Was he financially ok? Did you ask? If so what was his response? Did he want more time with the children? What was your response?

There is much we do not know. I am thinking from your post, there is much you do not know. Sometimes and I speak from my own experience that we as men...fathers are not treated equally in the courts or with our spouses. Some treat fathers as nothing more than a cheque book daddy. Some use children as weapons, access is withheld whether it be telephone or physical. Some use children to extort money...you don't pay, you don't see. You're short...you don't see. To some extent the family law industry, enables parents (mainly women) to do these things.

I mean really. For example. My ex denied my access wanted money...and if i did not sign a temp order to agree I wouldn't have any access...was given a mere eow. The fight went on from there.

I can say that from personal experience that as a father whom loves his children dearly, when these kind of things are happening with little or no support groups out there for men..as do women, if desperate enough that you will turn to these groups for support.

Everyone in here, including myself believes that they're the ones being wronged and our ex's are the bad one...including you. I guess what I am trying to say here is...none of us are perfect, in his or our minds there must of been something you did (in his mind) that is driving him to do things that you believe are inappropriate. Maybe, just maybe if you would of or can sit down with him and ask what 'can i do', maybe he'll listen if he truly believes you'll listen in turn.

Lets face it, we all want validation to our feelings of being wronged.

Just my opinion.

[Pursuinghappiness]

[QUOTE]You say everything was ok. But obviously everything was not ok. Maybe for you, but not for him. Did he have equal access to the children? Did he have equal say in what happens to them? It sounds like he was at least paying cs, what about spousal? Was he financially ok? Did you ask? If so what was his response? Did he want more time with the children? What was your response?

There is much we do not know. I am thinking from your post, there is much you do not know. Sometimes and I speak from my own experience that we as men...fathers are not treated equally in the courts or with our spouses. Some treat fathers as nothing more than a cheque book daddy. Some use children as weapons, access is withheld whether it be telephone or physical. Some use children to extort money...you don't pay, you don't see. You're short...you don't see. To some extent the family law industry, enables parents (mainly women) to do these things.

I mean really. For example. My ex denied my access wanted money...and if i did not sign a temp order to agree I wouldn't have any access...was given a mere eow. The fight went on from there.

I can say that from personal experience that as a father whom loves his children dearly, when these kind of things are happening with little or no support groups out there for men..as do women, if desperate enough that you will turn to these groups for support.

Everyone in here, including myself believes that they're the ones being wronged and our ex's are the bad one...including you. I guess what I am trying to say here is...none of us are perfect, in his or our minds there must of been something you did (in his mind) that is driving him to do things that you believe are inappropriate. Maybe, just maybe if you would of or can sit down with him and ask what 'can i do', maybe he'll listen if he truly believes you'll listen in turn.

Lets face it, we all want validation to our feelings of being wronged.

Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Blah, blah, blah...Translation: Must be your fault cause you're a chick.

The actual truth is that divorce OFTEN involves one embittered spouse....and regardless of gender, that person will engage in the most atrocious behavior in order to villify the other spouse so that they can feel better about their spouse deciding to divorce them, or the court decision or the fact that they haven't done a good job establishing a relationship with their children previous to the split. They will badmouth their ex-spouse to whomever they can get to listen, will use their kids as pawns and will lie, cheat, steal in an attempt to ruin the other person's future life without them.

It is VERY COMMON and this poster, regardless of her gender is obviously trying to be reasonable and dealing with a bitter, pathetic, loser who can't get over it.

My advice in having to deal with this myself...stand your ground! Assert yourself, hold your head up high, do not engage him...ignore him. Until he smartens up, follow the court order to the letter of the law and do not give any leeway because he will abuse it, use it to bring you back to court, etc. You cannot change these individuals...you have to learn how to deal with it and stand up to it without stooping to their level and you have to learn how to deal with the fallout for the kids.

Have faith, you aren't married to the jerk anymore...congratulations.

[mts1973]

There is/was no spousal support, I never went after it, which I could have,and the child support were the guidelines. It was joint custody, so of course he had a say, but a say in what? It wasn't like I was going to donate one of their kidney, or move them far away. He is involved with their school and doctors. He should know how to pick up a phone. The kids are verbal enough to be able to say what is going on as well. Ironically he got very upset when they had dentist appointment on his access days. Do you know how far in advance they need to be booked? Like I did that intentionally. I did have a communication book, which he just mocked, and would keep losing. In-fact when we needed to move, his apartment location was in consideration when we moved, closer. He decided to move further away. (he complains he is paying too much money on gas.) I never denied access if he decided to pay different amounts of cs. I really don't know where he thinks I denied him access. He told the kids and who ever else he slept in the car because he was so broke (through the whole marriage he was one of those people who was all about money money money.) We did get to the point where we could talk and be civil, but that all changed when his lies emerged (lies because of money, hid a death because he thought I would go after his inheritance) , which hurt both the kids and I. Then pulled a scam telling the kids it was ok if they wanted to move in with him, when he was in no position to have them live with them. Lived in a basement apartment. He worked long hours, business trips a week at a time. When our oldest left, it killed me, and he recently wrote her a letter telling me he let her move in to hurt me.

Days like father's day, if they fall on my week end, I told the youngest she should call up her dad and have a visit. I have made suggestions of different days if he was unable to make an access day. If he wants to add another day, I have no problem with it, but I want everything on paper. He has taken advantage of some situations, and I don't trust him. I do not agree when he wants something from me, he asks through the kids, and it puts me on the spot. He knows if there are any concern regarding the kids, just text.

I will tell you I did everything for the kids while we were together. Time off work when they were sick..GAVE BIRTH?? Breast fed? Had 1 car so I walked in snow and rain to daycares and grocery stores. All those hours sitting in emergencies and doc waiting rooms? Not asking for a hero cookie but while married is equality factored in?

I never went out of my way to make him look like he was bad dad like he has with me. I am not here to make his life easy, so I will not sit down with him and ask him what I can do to make his life better. All's I want is to move on, and these groups should help those who cant move on and who is living in bitterness.

Sums up some more of the history.

[winterwolf7]

Well I'm happy in some ways at least he found some support even if it was misguided. The few times I've felt like I could really use outside support as a man I have felt completely let down.

I've even had people say things to me like, "Well I can understand how soul shattering that would feel if you were their mother, but you're a man, you're stronger than that, you should be able to deal with it."

[Berner_Faith]

He can't be blamed for what advice he was given. I understand your first post was about the groups but this has quickly turned into what he has done wrong. He sought advice and was given advice, maybe misguided, but if he had no idea the advice he was getting was misguided he had no choice but to beleive it. Happens all the time with laywers.

Keep your head up and you will get through it, but as much as your "not here to make his life easier" it will also make your life easier to talk to him and deal with things between the two of you.

[mts1973]

Well I can't talk when he holding a tape recorder up, and recording phone conversations. I wonder who gave him advice to do that. Like I said, lots of damage has been done, and he still wont quit after losing the court case. He really thought the judge would give him full custody, taking her away from her siblings, school across the street, and a 4 bedroom house, and move 2 hours away into a half basement at his brothers, and he knew our daughter didn't want to move. Because of this the courts are bias against men. Councelling is definitely needed that's forsure.

[tugofwar]

...................

[Berner_Faith]

If you take a look at this group you will be surprised how many people are urged to tape record when they talk to their ex. If you are being civil and reasonable why would you care that he is taping the conversations? Who knows, it could end up helping you in the end if he shows it to the court and he is the one being unreasonable.

Like I said you need to be reasonable and things are not going to get easier for you until you guys are able to get over yourselves and focus on the kids. By stating your not here to make his life easier just tells me you are willing to fight and make his life difficult, which is not going to help your child.

[mcdreamy]

Well I can't talk when he holding a tape recorder up, and recording phone conversations. I wonder who gave him advice to do that. .

You hopefully aren't saying anything that couldn't be recorded and used later.. There really isn't anything I've said to the dd's father that I wouldn't mind recorded. (ok, there was this one instance 10 years ago (in 16 years separated) when, after 6 months of growing out her bangs, clipping them back every morning, talking about new hair styles, etc., he brought her home Sunday night, fresh haircut, new bangs, and I blew. lol. then my language was a little rough).

But day to day, you have to be working towards parenting your children together with your ex. Who cares if he carries around a recorder.

We all need some support, (hence the reason for THIS website), and sometimes the crazies are drawn out. Move forward, ignore the crazy and keep working towards a parenting plan that benefits your children.