Best Interest of the Children, I Sometimes Have to Question

[momto3]

Please just hear me out before you jump to conclusions. My children are very small and not able to weed out things that may or may not be being said to them.

On that note, I have to question is there ever a time when it may not be "in the best interest of the children" to share every activity with the NCP? I will explain why I ask this question. We just started a new activity for the summer which takes place once a week. This is in addition to another activity they do each Saturday morning which the NCP does also come to. This new activity seems to be something that they love, they are all smiles while they are playing and while they are participating in their snack with their team at the end of the game. The first week only myself and the kids attended and there was no problem. The second and third week he attended and there was nothing but drama and complete upset for the children at the end. I believe that as a parent it is my place to protect my children and burden them to see my anger/sadness whatever the case may be. Their father seems to feed their sadness. He prolongs good-byes and tells them that he also wishes he didn't have to go.His tone of voice is whiney when he speaks with them that I cannot convey in writing. I believe that he truly gets pleasure when he thinks that they are very sad over the fact that he is leaving to go elsewhere. I had a small talk with my oldest daughter after the complete breakdown of last week, she made a comment to me that was very worrisome, she said "it's not fair to Daddy that he doesn't spend as much time with us as you do". Where is that coming from? Why should a 6 year old be worried about what is fair to Daddy unless he has said something to that effect. How do I allow the children to really ENJOY their activities without having to worry about how they will have to pay for it for the rest of the evening?

[Mess]

This may border on manipulative, but so does limiting the access so that the children don't form as strong emotions towards dad.

Dad is not denigrating you or turning the children against you, he is working to strengthen their feelings toward him and strengthen their desire to be with him.

There is a huge moral and psychological difference between working for a positive result (feel better toward me, love me, spend time with me) and working for a negative result (don't feel good toward her, don't love her, don't spend time with her.)

Dad is not, from your description, working to alienate them from you. It is very likely he is picking up on your vibes and is worried that you want to limit their time with him.

Factually, it isn't fair that the children spend less time him than with you. This is a reality that the kids will see whether you like it or not. There may be other issues that outweigh this and shape the access schedule, but the unfairness in time is real, it is real for the kids, it is real for dad and it is real (in a positive way) for you.

I am not trying to condem you for this, but I am trying to show a clear view from the outside. At a young age there will be separation anxiety. You weigh the benefit to the children of having 2 parents who love them and attend their events and make them feel valuable, compared to cutting the access into halves.

Separation and divorce are obviously difficult times with a lot of issues coming up. The kids will have their tears. What you can do that is positive is to encourage the co-operation between you and their dad, both spend as much time as possible with them, help them to feel that they are not losing either parent and that their family, which includes both of you, has not ceased to exist.

If you and your ex are at each other's throats and there are endless games going on, then this is impossible, but this is the situation that hurts the kids directly.

[dinkyface]

I don't think this has anything to do with your question about 'sharing activities with NCP'.

I do agree that it sounds like your ex is feeding them the info about how it is not fair that he doesn't have as much time as you do, and overplaying the negatives of the goodbyes. If this is what he is doing, it is completely inappropriate. Each parent has a duty to make each handover as positive as possible, and to fully support the access schedule.

But, this may be happening regardless of whether he attends the Saturday activity - your jumping to the idea of blocking this contact is not a solution.

[Epona]

"He prolongs good-byes and tells them that he also wishes he didn't have to go. His tone of voice is whiney when he speaks with them that I cannot convey in writing."
Funny -- when my ex communicated with our first-born when we were happily married, his voice rose several octaves, which could have been called "whiney". Don't know how common it is that men's voices get higher when speaking to younger children (toddlers/pre-schoolers). It just may be the same "thing" with their Dad. It annoys you because you and he split up. My advice? Ignore his whiney voice.
Have you ever actually timed his "good-byes"? It's more difficult for some people to say goodbye than for others. Some people refuse to say "goodbye" preferring "see you later".
Honestly, I think you're looking for faults where none really exist there.
""it's not fair to Daddy that he doesn't spend as much time with us as you do". Where is that coming from? Why should a 6 year old be worried about what is fair to Daddy unless he has said something to that effect."
You would be amazed at the things kids can come up with all by themselves! I thought the same thing at about the same age and my parents were happily married! At six, kids are starting to figure out "fairness", so her remarks are appropriate. How you respond is the clincher. Saying, "Yeah, I know it's not fair. A lot of things in life aren't fair." It's important that you listen to HER and not start wondering about what her Dad may or may not be trying to do.
After all the sadness, do something FUN -- like a treat at the local ice cream shop and talk about the good things that happened at the activity that was just departed. Don't even mention Dad's lingering goodbyes, unless they raise the topic. And agree, "Yeah, it's not fair".

[notfairatall]

"He prolongs good-byes and tells them that he also wishes he didn't have to go. His tone of voice is whiney when he speaks with them that I cannot convey in writing."
Funny -- when my ex communicated with our first-born when we were happily married, his voice rose several octaves, which could have been called "whiney". Don't know how common it is that men's voices get higher when speaking to younger children (toddlers/pre-schoolers). It just may be the same "thing" with their Dad. It annoys you because you and he split up. My advice? Ignore his whiney voice.
Have you ever actually timed his "good-byes"? It's more difficult for some people to say goodbye than for others. Some people refuse to say "goodbye" preferring "see you later".
Honestly, I think you're looking for faults where none really exist there.
""it's not fair to Daddy that he doesn't spend as much time with us as you do". Where is that coming from? Why should a 6 year old be worried about what is fair to Daddy unless he has said something to that effect."
You would be amazed at the things kids can come up with all by themselves! I thought the same thing at about the same age and my parents were happily married! At six, kids are starting to figure out "fairness", so her remarks are appropriate. How you respond is the clincher. Saying, "Yeah, I know it's not fair. A lot of things in life aren't fair." It's important that you listen to HER and not start wondering about what her Dad may or may not be trying to do.
After all the sadness, do something FUN -- like a treat at the local ice cream shop and talk about the good things that happened at the activity that was just departed. Don't even mention Dad's lingering goodbyes, unless they raise the topic. And agree, "Yeah, it's not fair".

i completely agree with you Eponea Well said!!!

[wretchedotis]

Please just hear me out before you jump to conclusions. My children are very small and not able to weed out things that may or may not be being said to them.

On that note, I have to question is there ever a time when it may not be "in the best interest of the children" to share every activity with the NCP? I will explain why I ask this question. We just started a new activity for the summer which takes place once a week. This is in addition to another activity they do each Saturday morning which the NCP does also come to. This new activity seems to be something that they love, they are all smiles while they are playing and while they are participating in their snack with their team at the end of the game. The first week only myself and the kids attended and there was no problem. The second and third week he attended and there was nothing but drama and complete upset for the children at the end. I believe that as a parent it is my place to protect my children and burden them to see my anger/sadness whatever the case may be. Their father seems to feed their sadness. He prolongs good-byes and tells them that he also wishes he didn't have to go.His tone of voice is whiney when he speaks with them that I cannot convey in writing. I believe that he truly gets pleasure when he thinks that they are very sad over the fact that he is leaving to go elsewhere. I had a small talk with my oldest daughter after the complete breakdown of last week, she made a comment to me that was very worrisome, she said "it's not fair to Daddy that he doesn't spend as much time with us as you do". Where is that coming from? Why should a 6 year old be worried about what is fair to Daddy unless he has said something to that effect. How do I allow the children to really ENJOY their activities without having to worry about how they will have to pay for it for the rest of the evening?

I am going to be blunt.
You are making too much of this.
You want to protect your children, I get that. But this is the real world. They are involved in a real situation that affects them, and it seems they are now questioning it.
My son is turning 6. His Mom has primary residence. This was all decided about eight months ago.

My son came to me recently and said the exact same thing. "It's unfair I dont get to see you as much as I used to."
I didn't put these words in his mouth. He's growing up and making decisions on what he wants, and what he thinks. Believe it or not - he's becoming his own person with his own opinions.

You seem to be looking for reasons to keep your kids from your ex?
Like what? It hurts them too much to see him?
Believe me, it will hurt them more if he doesn't see them.

Honestly, with no prejudice when I say this, but you are being childish to consider this problem the way you are. Maybe think of how as a group you can all tackle the problem - rather then thinking ommitting information for DAD is the solution. That course of action will only make things worse in the long run. Believe it.

[TLCRN]

The bottom line is: whether he is whinning or not, it doesn't matter as it happens with any couple who are happily married. Unfortunetely, with busy lifestyles, some parents have jobs where one has to travel a lot and saying in "wishing he didn't have to go" would be a normal statement. It might be whining to you but sounds like sadness to me.
Don't read into this and focus on avoiding conflict with the ex.; better for everyone in the long run, keeping in mind "the children's best interest".
The court will laugh at you if you were to mention this. Advice: leave him alone with the child when he says good bye this way you don't have to hear or deal with it.

[representingself]

Advice: leave him alone with the child when he says good bye this way you don't have to hear or deal with it.

Well put!!

[JB514]

I agree with TLCRN.... Maybe their dad is actually sad. Try putting yourself in his shoes and imagine that all of a sudden you can only see your children for a limited amount of time and during every good bye you just feel that strong urge to tell them how much you love them and miss them. Just based on your post I would say that he is not doing it for any other reason then just letting them know how he feels. Children of divorce need to hear that and know that neither parent abandoned them.

[formyGirls]

I'll throw my two cents at this one...

As far as the comment by the 6 year old in regards to fairness -- as much as you may not want to hear it, it is very possible they came up with it on their own. My oldest daughter started making comments like that last year when she was six, telling my girlfriend and myself how it isn't fair how mom gets to keep her for two weeks and she only gets to spend two days at dad's house. And I can guarantee that mom didn't come up with that stuff - she has been trying for two years now to keep me out of the picture. We are super careful to not discuss ANYTHING around my girls.

As far as the dad saying he misses them... honestly it does sound like me like he could be doing a little better job of the goodbyes. I hate sending the kids back on Sundays, but I always muster up a brave face, give them some cheery, upbeat goodbyes, and on days when they are sad about going home to mom, we make a point of getting them excited about the fact they get to see their dog, hamster, toys, etc. that are at mom's house again.

If only mom put in the same effort and thought about the girls first, the world would make much more sense!