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  • What are my chances??

    Hi all,

    I am a Long time reader of the forum but this is my first Post. There has been a lot of good info on this site and I am hoping to get some objective feedback from the members who have been through a similar circumstance.

    Basically, we wife and I have a 2 year old and are expecting twins in the next few weeks. However, we have been drifting apart gradually over the last couple of years due to one reason or another. We are both good parents and really don't have any true horror stories unlike some members here have been through.

    My primary concern is custody of the children. I think both parents are equally important to healthy development, but I can see my wife seeking sole custody. Her only grounds would be that she is off work and can spend more time with the kids, and if I was granted joint custody, I would leave the kids with my parents when I was at work. I am also curious how joint custody works for infants.

    Anyone been through a similar circumstance? I would appreciate any advice or suggestions.

    Thanks

  • #2
    The most important thing what I learn - do not move out from home before you will have custody/access settled...

    I think most horror stories start after fight begin. Before I did not have horror stories too )

    My Ex also claim that because I work I can not care for a child. My attempts to explain that kid has to go to childcare anyway - they where they learn to be part of society, play, develop.
    but she think that there is nothing better for kid that sit at home with mam. Her mom think that she has to stay home with him till he become 7 y.o.

    I just wondering what judge will think when he will hear all that on trial. I am planning to ask her as a witness and ask those questions so she (not lawyer) will show her vision to a judge...

    Comment


    • #3
      Actually I have always been wondering the same question - at what age can Mom and Dad be viewed equally in the eyes of law and court (which is by the way is hardly fair in such matters)...

      But for infants who are still on breast-feeding, at least I would think that we don't have any good chance as Dad. Dads' soft parenting skills can't compensate the required hardware that Moms have to provide nutrition for the first year for infants. I would think that for your 2 YO son you may have a better chance but then again the court will keep the siblings together.

      Comment


      • #4
        There are 2 separate issues:

        1) How you split the time: You'll ideally agree (IN WRITING WITH WITNESSES) on a schedule for the kids that increases over time, working towards 50-50 as they reach 2-3 years. BEWARE: the initial schedule (where you have very little time) can become entrenched and then it is very hard to change (since you having >40% access means a lot less $ for mom, especially if she is higher income).

        2) Who makes decisions regarding the kids (i.e. sole vs joint custody) w.r.t. education, health, religion (big stuff). As long as you can keep a cooperative relationship, then you have a good chance at joint custody. BEWARE: mom can effectively GIVE HERSELF sole custody by unilaterally 'manufacturing' non-cooperation, or worse, making false abuse/violence claims.... so keep it cool and nice (if at all possible)! Consider wearing a recorder to protect yourself against false claims (it might seem unnecessary now ... but as soon as she realises what 'sharing' means, the mood change change drastically). Keep a diary!! (what you discuss, your interactions with the kids - e.g. bathtimes, library visits, doctor appointments, kiddy parties/playdates). If you can transition to email communication with mom, even better (leaves a record, and lessens hot-head-emotional responses) - though that usually is for after you separate.
        Last edited by dinkyface; 03-14-2011, 02:24 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by dinkyface View Post

          BEWARE: mom can effectively GIVE HERSELF sole custody by unilaterally 'manufacturing' non-cooperation.... so keep it cool and nice (if at all possible)!
          exactly what happened for me. from mom point of view if I do not agree with her I am not cooperating )

          Do you by any chance have some evidence base about such 'manufacturing' non-cooperation you willing to share ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dazed&confused View Post
            if I was granted joint custody, I would leave the kids with my parents when I was at work.
            You can have joint custody (i.e. equal legal say in their upbringing), and still have kids spending bulk of time with mom when they are very young - it may make sense for you both financially and time-wise. No need to remove them from mom just for the sake of a title, and you will have a hard time winning that one. But, you have to be very careful because this sets up a time and $ pattern (called a 'status quo' in law) that you (probably) do NOT want to continue when the twins are 2-3 yo. The key is to agree NOW on a transition to 50-50 time in a few years.
            Last edited by dinkyface; 03-14-2011, 02:41 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the responses - great advice. It is disheartening to see how far you have to go to do the right thing for your kids. It almost sounds like I have to justify having 50/50 custody. I thoughts judges would want to enforce that as much as possible?

              Comment


              • #8
                Another note
                - with 3 kids, the argument for mom staying at home makes more financial sense, because daycare costs for 3 are huge.
                - however, if mom's salary is high, then she has less of an argument i.e. since she is obligated to support her kids, she has a harder job arguing that it makes sense to give up $100k/yr so that she can stay at home with kids.

                You should come at this from a perspective that you want to work out something that makes best use of your joint finances and working schedules/skills, without either feeling like they are being excluded as a parent. That is reasonable, and beign reasonable is a HUGE asset if things ever come to court.

                Unfortunately, since moms often earn less, and have the 'hardware' they win the 'stay home with kids' argument over the higher earning dad i.e. if dad stays at home with kids, he earns less, and pays less CS, and that's a hard sell.

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                • #9
                  Joint custody will become almost non existent if mom breast feeds the twins so bide your time. Don't move out and avoid any conflict, hard with a hormonal woman but you'll make it. After the babies are born you two will likely end up in the honeymoon swing again since you will both be relying on each other so much. Just wait it out, educate yourself in the mean time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mama2bee View Post
                    Joint custody will become almost non existent if mom breast feeds the twins so bide your time. Don't move out and avoid any conflict, hard with a hormonal woman but you'll make it. After the babies are born you two will likely end up in the honeymoon swing again since you will both be relying on each other so much. Just wait it out, educate yourself in the mean time.
                    YES! The more time you can spend building up your part as supportive, cooperative, involved, the easier your task will be. Also...when you split, I believe that you would automatically considered to have joint custody (because that was how it was before you split). In my case, we split before kid was born, so the presumption was sole custody to mom. Moving out of the house before you have the major issues settled (mostly, support and time split) is also a big no-no.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the feedback. Also curious if anyone has an opinion or experience in how to draft the custody agreement? Use a lawyer? Mediator? Written agreement between spouses?

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                      • #12
                        You will both need your own independent legal advice in order to make the agreement at all binding - but the trick is to keep the lawyers helping you towards agreement, as opposed to escalating conflict. Mediation is definitely an option ... as long as both parties are committed to it - it can break down very quickly as soon as one party doesn't like what they are hearing from the mediator (I'd recommend getting mediator with legal background in family law and arbitration/mediation, as opposed to the 'social worker' variety).

                        You will be creating a written agreement that will then be reviewed and endorsed by a family court judge. This is called a 'consent order', which means it is an order that you have arrived at via mutual consent.

                        Here is a sample parenting plan: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/pplan1.htm. In general, the more conflict there is between you, the more specific it should be.

                        Maybe try contacting Families in Transition (if in Toronto) - a few posters here have recommended them. Families in Transition

                        There are also Family Law Info Centres: Family Law Information Centre*(FLIC) Locations - Ministry of the Attorney General

                        iceberg - your questions are diverting the topic from the OP's original requests. If you'd like to debate this, perhaps you could start a new thread.
                        Last edited by dinkyface; 03-14-2011, 09:49 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Whoah whoah whoah, hold your horses! We're offering advice like they've already split up, when that doesn't sound like the case at all!

                          Originally posted by Dazed&confused View Post
                          Basically, we wife and I have a 2 year old and are expecting twins in the next few weeks. However, we have been drifting apart gradually over the last couple of years due to one reason or another. We are both good parents and really don't have any true horror stories unlike some members here have been through.
                          One reason or another? Yes, you have two reasons you are drifting apart: they're called a toddler and a pregnancy. It takes WORK to keep a marriage together after children, and be honest with yourself, have you or your wife been devoting time to one another and maintaining your bond, or have the last couple of years been all exhausting and all about the first baby and now all about the incoming ones as well?

                          If you really and truly intend to split up, you'll find a wealth of advice here, including on amicable breakups, but first I'd suggest talking things over with your wife, seeking counselling on how to maintain a marriage after children, and admitting you are going to need a whole lot of help once twins arrive, especially since you already have a young child in the home.

                          Do you really think things are over with your wife, or are you just misplacing the anxiety you may be experiencing over how the new babies will change your life? Is your marriage truly dead, or is it just blanketed by the weight of parental responsibilities bearing down on you? Don't hold your wife responsible for the way your marriage changed after children. Do you truly want out of the marriage, or do you really just want your marriage back to the way it was before you had children?

                          I think you might have a lot of self-analysis to do before you jump to separation/divorce. Do you really not love your wife any longer, or do you just not love that she's exhausted and hormonal and seems to have little time for you anymore? That's not indicative of any lack of love for you on her part, and you are supposed to change right along with her, you know.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you take this to court, it's going to take some time. Try like a year if not more. That could buy you sometime. Only recommendations are, play it safe and lay low. Be involved and try to work things out with your spouse.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by iceberg View Post
                              @Dazed&Confused.

                              Sorry I dont like being a pessimist and am not bias but I doubt a court will give you shared custody of newborns. The older one shouldn't be separated from the siblings either. I think they are better off with their mom now. Joint custody is the way to go. Also keep one thing in mind, work with your W that when the kids are 2 or 3 you get shared custody and dont worry about status quo. It is very important if you be involved in childrens lives as much as you can (i.e doctor, vaccination etc) and keep a detailed journal of everything including what your ex does or says and having witnesses is always good. So in 2-3 years down the road if your X refuses shared custody, I believe you can get it through court.
                              Are you kidding? do not worry about status-quo? You know I was with little one on all his appointments before I got married ad door was shut... I actually was the one who hold him when he got his first and second shut and look at me with big questions in his eyes "DAD HOW COULD YOU LET THAT LADY DOCTOR HURT ME?" Momy was afraid to hold him - but now she said that she has concerns about my parenting abilities ...
                              And what I have in affidavit - he newer carried about child ... Now I have to prove that I am not a monkey ...

                              If everything is not so bed now I would do all possible to sign agreement now and do not use it lated in case everything work-out well...

                              As someone said before it not clear what exec status now. As I said before hope for good be ready for worst....

                              Comment

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