after shcool reading class as extraordinary expense

[BitHunter]

Hi,
Our 7 year old daughter is taking an after school reading class. It costs $200 per months. I'm paying $850 child support. Can it be claimed that this $200 is NOT an extraordinary expense because it can be reasonable covered from the $850?

Or any advice/guidance how things are determined in practice by the judges if they can be reasonable covered from the child support and which expenses are extraordinary expenses?

[representingself]

Does your child have any type of professionally diagnosed learning disability... or has she been identified by school officials as requiring an IEP, or special assistance?

This is a tricky expense, considering it is clearly for the educational betterment of the child....

Depending on the child's learning needs...and considering the extremely high cost of the program, this seems to be a clear example of an extraordinary expense, and would not be covered by regular child support.

Does your ex not have to pay her proportional share of the expense?

[BitHunter]

It was recommended by the school. My ex is asking me to pay $160 out of $200. I'm not saying that it is not high cost, I'm saying that the $850 should be enough to cover it reasonably. How would the court look at this?

[representingself]

I believe the court would deem the expense to be necessary and reasonable, (given it was recommended by the school), and I believe that the court would see this as an extraordinary expense, and would rule in your ex's favor.

If the funds were for an extra-curricular activity, like a sport, then you'd have grounds to argue it... but because it is an expensive, educational program, recommended by the school... I think you may have to pay for it...

I don't have any personal experience with section 7 expenses... but this scenario seems pretty straight-forward.

Maybe other posters would have a different opinion.

[blinkandimgone]

I'd be inclined to think it would be section 7. My personal understanding is that child support covers the 'necessities of life' ie: food, shelter, clothes, school supplies etc and section 7 covers other things like extra-curricular activities, braces, tutors and other special needs.

Does your seperation agreement cover section 7 expenses and define items over a certain amount of $$?

[hld]

the ex is coming to me to pay for skates for our child....is that under section 7 or should the child support cover that? no lessons are been taken.

[representingself]

the ex is coming to me to pay for skates for our child....is that under section 7 or should the child support cover that? no lessons are been taken.

No.. regular skates would not be considered special or extraordinary, and would be covered under regular child support.

Now if the child was a highly competative, championship figure skater, and she required custom made orthotic skates.. then that might constitute a "special" expense.

[hld]

Thank you for your help!

[DunnMom]

@RepresentingSelf ... Sorry to "Thread-Jack" but I have a question regarding your above comment/statement.

Sep. Agreement from 2004 (divorced 2005). Ex paid his "share" (50&#37 of 1 extra-curricular/year per child. Meaning he paid 1/2 of house-league hockey registration. Approx. $350/yr per child (2 children). He also paid or had me pay half of any "equipment" they needed to particpate in said sport.

As of 2-3 yrs ago, relationship got very "stressed" to say the least. It got to the point where I've now filed a Motion To Change. Only issues are Guideline Support and "proportinate" Section 7. Back in '04 ex made $50,0000 and me $30,000 .. he paid guideline support & 50% Sect. 7. Fast forward to '09/'10 .. Ex makes $70,000, I make $27,000. In the Motion and Financials I'm stating that 1 activity per year per child (not to exceed $500/yr) for extra-curricular (ie. Hockey). Registration is $360 per child. But I've been incurring all the costs for the past 2 yrs of equipment, team parties, tournaments, etc ... it's WELL over $500/yr but I feel 1 activity per child per year with a $500 cap is fair and reasonable.

agree? disagree?

[hld]

ok let me ask you another question,,,the ex keeps putting our child in different activities such as dance class, swimming lessons and etc. without talking me first......but hands me receipts to pay for all this..does that fall under extra or ordinary?

[BitHunter]

OK, thanks representingself! The laws says that :"(i) the amount of the expense in relation to the income of the spouse requesting the amount"
What kind of "income" the court takes into account in this cases? My salary is relatively high, but after deducting the taxes, (no choice in this) rent of the apartment (small, crappy, but I can't go to work from the street), car payments, (not a BMW by any means and required for my work) and the child support (no choice in this again) what's left is basically the thing which is called "discretionary income". My ex has much lower gross income, but basically no taxes and expenses, so her "discretionary income" is basically the same as mine. What does the court usually use as "income"? Is it the gross salary, the net salary, taxable income, the reasonable discretionary income or what?? (Eg: my gross is 90K, my ex's 30K, my discretionary income is 30K from my gross, hers is 35K (with no tax, no rent, no car, but with CS)
Any experience with this?

[tugofwar]

Why would you even be questioning if it's a s.7 expense?
Especially if you are aware that the school had recommend it, this is to help and further your children educationally, without a doubt I wouldn't be questioning it.
Ask for some sort of receipt, note from the teacher, school etc if you have doubt that it's legit.

[DunnMom]

It shouldn't (IMO) ... unless it's "reasonable". What kind of $ value are we talking about? Are the swimming/dance classes under say $500/yr? Or are they $5,000?

That said I do feel that extra curricular activities are HUGELY benficial to children.

1 "reasonable" activity per season, I believe, any court would go for. $10,000/yr horseback riding lesson's they probably won't UNLESS there is a status-quo (ie. the kids' have done this prior to the separation/divorce).

[blinkandimgone]

ok let me ask you another question,,,the ex keeps putting our child in different activities such as dance class, swimming lessons and etc. without talking me first......but hands me receipts to pay for all this..does that fall under extra or ordinary?

If you were to pay it, it would fall under section 7 but typically you want to have it written into your seperation agreement that section 7 expenses ie: activites/sports are agreed upon BEFORE the kids are signed up. If you just agree to pay a certain percent of section 7 you're giving the ex free reign on signing up the kids for anything and everything and handing you the bill after the fact.

[BitHunter]

tugofwar: Not the current reading/writing lesson is the question, but the principle. If I pay without a world, then very soon our daughter will end up with a french nanny and scuba diving classes at the Bahamas. The other issue I'm currently trying to fix that I can see her once for 7 hours biweekly. With that very soon she will not be my daughter, only genetically. And why would I pay anything for a foreigner?? (I hope we will never get there, but I want to know what to expect in which cases)