Moving away with the kids

[Johnny]

I initially wrote this in the divorce forum, but I thought it would be more appropriate here.

Here is our situation:

My Fiancée has a little girl from her previous relationship. She lives in Moncton, NB and I live in Quebec city now (previously I was in Ottawa). She is now pregnant with my child and we want to move in together. Due to our circumstances, she will be the one selling her house and quitting her job to join me. We want to have all our little family of four together under the same roof.

However, she will require permission from her Ex to move since he has visitation rights every other week-end. The court already cut his visitation rights after he lied to the court about my fiancée trying to leave the province to get an accelerated date to keep her there. He was also chastized by the judge for refusing to pay child support and daycare contribution.

I would like to know what are the chances of the courts sanctioning this move.

Feel free to ask any question if I missed relevant information.

[standing on the sidelines]

How often does the father see the child now?

[Johnny]

He has her every other week-end. he is suppsoe to pick her up at 6 on friday and drop her off at 8 am at daycare on monday.

In the last 4 month, he's picked her 3 times because he usually send someone else to do it for him. And he also drops her off late at daycare. Currently, my fiancée's lawyer has let the court know of his playing fast and loose with the agreement despite the court order.

[NBDad]

I posted a reply to the other one....anyway:

It depends on whether her ex wants to be reasonable about it or not.

How long have the two of you been together? How old is her daughter?

She is going to have to offer him equivalent time to make up for the every other weekend loss. So you are looking at maybe giving up the entire summer and/or march break/Christmas vacations to offset as well as picking up access costs. (ie. you are going to have to shell out for the bus/plane tickets or other transport for him to see his daughter).

I'd also offer up scheduled phone calls for him too. (ie. 3 10 minute phone calls a week)

He's going to argue about 1. Loss of time, 2. increased costs for access, 3. being apart from the child (especially if she's relatively young) and not being able to be part of her life.

Offer viable alternatives from the get go and it makes it harder for him to block the move.

She would have to show how the move would benefit the child/her circumstances. (Ideally she wants to have a job lined up in the new province BEFORE moving). That means that by moving in with you, the child benefits from an increased standard of living, better stability, heck argue better immersion into the french language/culture by being in Quebec, which translates to increased opportunities for the child as she gets older.

THEN send all this in an offer to settle to her ex/ex's lawyer. If he refuses (and he probably will) then she needs to do a motion to vary in the courts basically outlining things again. Then the ex is allowed to contest. 50-50 shot. Either the judge allows it (hence why I said to offer up the extra time in terms of summer/march break/xmas vacation...it looks better) or he won't. If he won't, you're SOL.

The ex CAN block the move if he chooses. (Hell, I blocked a move to MONCTON, and I'm over toward SJ.)

You need to have compelling, solid reasons for uprooting the child from existing status quo.

Your other choice is to roll the dice on whether the ex is going to run to the courts and just move anyway. Downside to this is that the child CAN be ordered returned to the province. (and placed into the father's care) until the mother moves back and makes proper application through the courts. (My ex tried this, she lost AND got hit with costs).

Don't recommend that way obviously, it's underhanded and can backfire on you big time. If the ex refuses a reasonable settlement, then you need to allow proper time for application through the court. 60-90 days. or so.

[Johnny]

and I replied to the other one

Let's keep in here, here is the reply:

We've been together for a little over 8 month, we've know each other 11 years now.
Her daughter 17 month old.

We thought about offering him a week every four, wich would give him more time with his daughter than he already has. (keep in mind, My fiancée used to give him more visitation until he lied to the court and got his visitation cut down.) we also intented on giving him a good chunk of summer and Christmas vacations. However, her Ex is nothing near reasonable and probably will not give an inch...

The child will benefit from an increased standard of living as I'm pretty well off. Both my fiancée and I would rather have her be a stay at home mom since i can easily support her, her daughter and the child she's currently pregnant with (mine obviously). This would permit her to be more involved with both kids.

As to the cost of access, we have thought about it and our plan for now is to bring her to him or pay his fare to us. It's not our plan to cut him out of her life. we just want to be together and I want to be able to raise my future child.

I'm also wondering, How will the fact that she is carrying my child weigh in the balance of things. We have a chance to form a normal family unit where all four of us can be happy. I know the court will not separate siblings so

[dadtotheend]

You are going to have to present VERY compelling evidence as to why the child should be moved so far away from the father.

Being late for daycare drops on Monday mornings, sending someone else to pick her up, his misrepesentations to the court about dates, a desire to have all your little family of four together under the same roof, and even his refusal to pay support are not going to cut it all.

You're going to have to bring solid arguments about why this will be better for the child. Starting from a position that removes her from her father puts you in a very deep, but not insurmountable, hole.

I would strongly hope that you don't try to move the child anyway hoping that the father won't be willing/able or successful in stopping the move. That would be setting the stage for a huge conflict to which the child will be exposed, to say nothing of being a completely ass**** thing to do.

[NBDad]

Stop that you

[NBDad]

I would strongly hope that you don't try to move the child anyway hoping that the father won't be willing/able or successful in stopping the move. That would be setting the stage for a huge conflict to which the child will be exposed, to say nothing of being a completely ass**** thing to do.

Any lawyer with half a brain will have the child ordered back inside of a week anyway. It can be used as grounds for an ex parte order.

Judges frown on parents who try to circumvent the system for their own whims. Blocking such a move is easy. Getting one through in the face of opposition from the ex...not so much.

Her quitting her job to go and let you support her isn't going to help you.

Her making arrangements to be transferred up, or finding alternate employment in the area can be used to help make a case to allow it. (Particularly when coupled with making reasonable attempts to settle with the ex outside of a court order)

Play it correctly and I'd peg you at maybe 50-50 chance. Maybe more, maybe less, depending on which judge you draw.

[Johnny]

Dadtotheend:
Like I wrote earlier, we intend to offer more time than the court did and pay his ticket to us if need be. It's not our goal to cut him out of her life.
And We would not do any underhanded tactics to move her away without his consent or the consent of the court.

NBdad:
Heard and understood ont he job issue, it's an easily solved issue.

do you guys have any knowledge of where I stand with my rights as a father when our child is born? will that sway the court in favour of a move?

[Johnny]

oh and before i get asked that question,

I can't move to NB, and due to the nature of my work, I have little control to where I live.

[standing on the sidelines]

...


As to the cost of access, we have thought about it and our plan for now is to bring her to him or pay his fare to us. It's not our plan to cut him out of her life. we just want to be together and I want to be able to raise my future child.

I'm also wondering, How will the fact that she is carrying my child weigh in the balance of things. We have a chance to form a normal family unit where all four of us can be happy. I know the court will not separate siblings so

Considering you want to be able to raise your future child, you can understand his wanting/rights to have access to his child. You can understand his position and if you were in that position, would you not do the same??

As for forming a normal family unit, what is normal anymore?? He is the childs father and always will be. The court will not separate siblings but remember that they are only half siblings not full. The court will not want to separate a child from their parent either.

[dadtotheend]

Your having a child does complicate things. Keeping siblings together is compelling, but so is keeping the girl with her father.

Your post where you lay out a plan to give the ex more time (which I didn't see until after my first post) and pay for travel costs does appear to be a reasonable attempt.

But giving him a week every four is going to cause a lot of costly travel for the child and the parents, and is not going to work when she starts school. And you are asking a young child to put down roots in two homes which will be worlds away for her.

[dadtotheend]

You could always buy the ex a house in Quebec to entice him to move as well.

[Johnny]

Standing at the sidelines:
Maybe so, but we're still offering him more time than the court will. Wouldnt that give him a better oppurtinity to connect with his daughter?
He'll most likely refuse the move because he's angry at the mother for leaving him.

Dadtotheend;
I know it's costly but I'm not sure I have much choice in the matter... I wanna be with this woman because I love her. I want us to have a shot at being a family.

does anyone know a better plan than a week every 4 four? since it would require another court battle in 4 years...
Perhaps give him all summer long and a good chunk of christmas/march break?
(Again I am more than willing to bring her to him at my own costs)

[dadtotheend]

An all summer long and lengthy holiday breaks schedule is well intentioned but unsustainable. A toddler can't be apart from her parents for such long stretches. A school age child will eventually form friendships in the community. You can't expect her to live in two provinces that divide her roots like that.

Yes, you love her, but I'm going to be blunt. You are crafting a schedule that suits your living arrangements, and the child's interest isn't being prioritized. What's being prioritized here is your career and your love for her.

If you love her so much, bribe the guy with money to move to Quebec, or quit your job and move down east. If you don't want/can't do that, then at least acknowledge that it's your career and your love sitting at the top of the priority heap.