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  • Complicated situation!

    Hello from Lethbridge, Alberta!

    First time on these forums so please go easy on me. I really need some help as my situation is unique and yet has the possibility to forever lose my son (again) and be distanced from him physically (across continents) and emotionally (highly vindictive and manipulative ex).

    2 years ago ex-wife took away our son from our home to Hungary. We were an intact family, there wasn't even a talk of separation, let alone changing the residence of our son. She did all this moving behind my back.
    Got the lawyers involved in both Hungary and Canada, had a trial in Hungary where the judgement asked the son to be returned to Canada.
    Son is now back here with me! Ex never returned from Hungary though she is now saying she will come to visit our son. The court order we have now says I have sole custody, and care and the mother can have both access and visit supervised. The order does not say who could supervise. Since son returned he speaks to his mom on Skype from or home, and naturally I am around...that is to say I have been the "supervisor".
    Ex is now demanding, almost 1.5 years after the local court order, that she does not want me to be supervisor for either access or visitation, but wants a social worker supervise their online and in-person interactions. I am terrified. She kidnapped our child for the sole purpose of separating my son from me permanently as well as gain the child support money from Canada that will go a long way in Hungary. Supervision by a third party will not detect subtle references to Hungary and entice our son to again question his place of belonging.
    1) What shape do access and visitation typically take for a parent that had previously abducted that child?
    2) Can I apply to the court to remove all her parental rights due to her propensity to create stress and waste money on lawyers for frivolous and vexatious reasons?
    3) Can i ask the court to order that a few specific topics that are of sensitive nature to my son be excluded by the mother to bring up during the supervised (by third party) access or visitation?

  • #2
    I wouldnt worry. She is barking up the wrong tree. Your order does not specify supervision therefore you can supervise.

    You can either ignore her or simply say:

    Our order does not specify who is to supervise your parenting time therefore the default is me. If you have an issue with this, please provide the names and details of three to six available supervisors or a designated supervised access site and I will consider your request. The cost of a supervisory will be completely yours to bear.

    And then you ignore her. She abducted her child, she lost all rights to make demands.

    Comment


    • #3
      If she comes to visit, the easiest thing for all involved is to use a supervised access centre. As for the calls/FaceTime, there is little she can do. Her options are to call and speak to the child, or not call if she doesn't like it to be in your presence. It's unreasonable to expect you to arrange for the child to go somewhere else or have someone come to your home to supervise instead of you. Unless there is an actual issue that is being caused specifically by you supervising the calls, there is really nothing she can do.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rockscan View Post
        I wouldnt worry. She is barking up the wrong tree. Your order does not specify supervision therefore you can supervise.

        You can either ignore her or simply say:

        Our order does not specify who is to supervise your parenting time therefore the default is me. If you have an issue with this, please provide the names and details of three to six available supervisors or a designated supervised access site and I will consider your request. The cost of a supervisory will be completely yours to bear.

        And then you ignore her. She abducted her child, she lost all rights to make demands.

        Thanks so much!
        Unfortunately she ain't the type to go away just by ignoring (a trait I've deeply admire in her in other circumstances). Plus she has a former fellow student at U of C who I am pretty sure will represent her (he's a lawyer and called to the bar a few years ago). So basically she gets a free lawyer and is only happy to drag matters to court (never paid back a penny for the 10's of 1000's I paid on lawyer in HU and CA, airfare, boarding and lodging in HU...but wants equal distribution of property and assets).
        Given that level of vengeance, will she not be able to ask for a variation asking for me to be removed from the supervisory role? I mean as a custodial parent I have had to stop her from saying inappropriate things to our son when they were having a video call (e.g. telling our son she abducted him for safety...neither was there ever any agency involved, nor had anybody ever noticed anything suspicious in our son - be it daycare, school, friends, doctor, counsellor...). She alleged emotion abuse as reason for the abduction...an allegation that of course surfaced once she was safely far away from the local court which could verify any of her garbage claims.


        Are there laws that spell out the custodial parents rights to interfere for legitimate reasons?

        Comment


        • #5
          No there are no laws and if she had no proof shes worse off.

          She can take you back to court to get someone else to supervise but it wont happen quickly and shes in Hungary so she truly has little to stand on. I also suggested you tell her to recommend someone else. There are places that do supervised access visits in a building with a social worker but she can pay for it. Shes the one making the demands so she can back up her requests and pay for them!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
            I wouldnt worry. She is barking up the wrong tree. Your order does not specify supervision therefore you can supervise.

            You can either ignore her or simply say:

            Our order does not specify who is to supervise your parenting time therefore the default is me. If you have an issue with this, please provide the names and details of three to six available supervisors or a designated supervised access site and I will consider your request. The cost of a supervisory will be completely yours to bear.

            And then you ignore her. She abducted her child, she lost all rights to make demands.

            Thanks much!


            Trouble is though from an ethical standpoint there should be no rights given to her for dictating terms, fact is that sometimes I've had to intervene in their calls. I wonder if that gets seen by the court as self remedy by me which would not go down well for me I'd imagine. This happens rarely, and only as a last resort (for example when she tries to pass on her opinion on something as a fact - like saying Canada is unsafe for her compared to Hungary).

            Is there some kind of documentation that spells out when a custodial parent can intervene to safeguard the child's interest?


            Also are you aware of any case law that speaks to access and visits by the abducting parent following recovery of the abducted child? It's a pretty scant occurance to begin with ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              No there are no laws and if she had no proof shes worse off.

              She can take you back to court to get someone else to supervise but it won�t happen quickly and she�s in Hungary so she truly has little to stand on. I also suggested you tell her to recommend someone else. There are places that do supervised access visits in a building with a social worker but she can pay for it. She�s the one making the demands so she can back up her requests and pay for them!

              I'm actually not against supervision by a third party as long as they can catch attempts at misrepresentation of me or Canada to our son (unlikely because she is far too clever to badmouth either of those in front of a supervisor), or enticing him to Hungary or telling him how much her family in Hungary is missing him, or how her city is this cool European capital which shows how lacklustre little Lethbridge is, in comparison. When my son was in HU, after the kidnapping, she used to talk up her life to him - all the way from lining up a cavalry of extended family that suddenly became interested him (never showed any interest while he was in Canada), to throwing lavish parties at her place with her friends who my son had never seen before. It's easy to sway a kiddo with Lego and parties anywhere in the world to make him believe that it's his new home.

              That kind of mental torture (because there is no chance in hell I will ever allo the son to go to Hungary until he is an adult) over many many months and years can turn my son against his place of belonging (Lethbridge)...and my relationship with him then becomes a collateral damage because it's me who's keeping him from visitors HU.


              From what I understand the access centre supervisors work at a much higher threshold to intervene or stop the access...unless the child shows signs of distress I guess they don't get directly involved.


              Can a court put some topics out of scope for their conversations at the centre? It will be hard to do so I'd recon . Is complete removal of contact is the only lasting solution?

              Comment


              • #8
                Complicated situation!

                Policing what she says is difficult. And since she is intent on doing it you really cant stop her. Your best bet is get your son in therapy to work through what his mother says.

                A third party will take notes on the time and what was said/done. Then they could be used as a witness for you in court noting the things she says.

                Supervised access wasnt given blindly. She kidnapped her child. She was ordered to return him. The court will not look kindly on her especially when she is continuing to play this game. You will overlook and redirect. A supervisor will outline with notes the improper behaviour. She is much better off having you supervise because an independent third party will point out the inappropriate comments which could cause her to lose all her access.

                This is no different than a parent who tells their child daddy is bad when they live down the block. She is trying to justify her actions to her child which is wrong and why you need to have your son see a therapist. He needs to be able to work through this shit with an expert.

                Comment


                • #9
                  how old is the child?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                    how old is the child?
                    He is 10.
                    Thanks for your interest

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                      Policing what she says is difficult. And since she is intent on doing it you really can�t stop her. Your best bet is get your son in therapy to work through what his mother says.

                      A third party will take notes on the time and what was said/done. Then they could be used as a witness for you in court noting the things she says.

                      Supervised access wasn�t given blindly. She kidnapped her child. She was ordered to return him. The court will not look kindly on her especially when she is continuing to play this game. You will overlook and redirect. A supervisor will outline with notes the improper behaviour. She is much better off having you supervise because an independent third party will point out the inappropriate comments which could cause her to lose all her access.

                      This is no different than a parent who tells their child daddy is bad when they live down the block. She is trying to justify her actions to her child which is wrong and why you need to have your son see a therapist. He needs to be able to work through this shit with an expert.
                      Solid reply as usual, thanks so much for that.
                      How does the supervision work actually - does one supervisor observe one access session, or more than one?
                      Also do they tape the interaction? Just trying to figure out how close the notes will be to the actual spoken words...As they say - the Devil's in the details.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I believe its simply one person in the room with them taking notes. If she says anything inappropriate the person will write it down. They dont intervene or interrupt.

                        Seriously, you cant make her stop. She will continue to do it. The benefit of the supervisor is that they are a third party taking what will be considered neutral notes.

                        Comment

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