Exchange time

[respondent]

The summer is almost over, and maybe she will become different person next year. If you are making any future agreements or back to court - include it there, but fight for next couple exchanges in August 2022 not worth it imho.

[respondent]

Agreed re: this summer. My ex never accepted 50/50 and still thinks its best for kids to only see their dad haphazardly and when its convenient for her. I was thinking that IF we are going to make changes to exchange times, what is the most common and most effective?

We do it in the afternoon. Ex insisted on other time during the summer (I actually got more than 50% her way during the summer) and I just accepted that. Probably Friday afternoon is the best day for exchange. If there is a long weekend, you can travel with kids Fri evening - Mon, and if your ex broke their sleeping schedule you have Saturday/Sunday to get it back to normal during the school year.

[blinkandimgone]

Have joint custody and 50/50 parenting. Relationship with ex is not on solid ground following court proceedings...if anything they have gotten worse with passage of time. Court Order says exchanges are at 3pm, which goes well September-June during school year. During the summer, not so much as exchanges are happening during middle of afternoon, which makes it difficult to plan activities with the kids.

Is 3pm the norm for exchanges? Would 9am make more sense? Or do people have a hybrid where it is 3pm during school year, and something different during the summer months?

Pros and cons for both. A later drop-off gives the one parent the full day to spend with the kids and make plans, an earlier drop-off gives the kids time to settle in, have dinner and wind down before bed on their evening back to the other parent.

A lot will depend on the ages, routines etc and just the kids themselves. There is no one size fits all for everyone, you know your kids best so go with what works best to fit their needs.

[terryfyde]

3pm in the summer is weird but if that is what you agreed to on consent what will you say if your ex wants to keep it 3pm?
If no consent then 3pm messes with your work and your exes work.

[Tayken]

Is 3pm the norm for exchanges? Would 9am make more sense? Or do people have a hybrid where it is 3pm during school year, and something different during the summer months?

Most agreements / orders where a custody and access "professional" is involved will have morning times for exchanges that is pegged to the start of the school that the children attend. Clearly the children are old enough that no day-camp/day care is involved to do the exchanges.

General idea is that all parents can get their kids to school/daycare on time.

As well, if the kids have a problem at school it is the parent who the children will be residing with responsibility to deal with them. Other way around you invite PILES of conflict.

End of day exchanges are high-conflict making situations.

[iona6656]

I'm with Tayken- parenting time ends with start of school day.

Our exchanges are done at school during the school year. For summer/vacation- exchanges are between 10-11am.

[respondent]

This topic is where I see lawyers write long pages in your separation agreement, charging you huge $$$ putting stuff where the kid celebrates birthday on odd vs even years, and then still capable of writing it the way that dual interpretation possible, making me very sad about the industry in general.

I'd say it really depends in every case what works for both parents. If you happen to write new separation agreement, make sure to specify times for any days when school is off (summer, march, winter breaks, observed holidays, PA days, inclement weather etc.) as well as all days when kid is not feeling well. In other words if kid isn't well, does kid go to another parent instead of a school at 8am, or stays with same parent till 3pm? What happens if kid is sick and can't go to another parent? (for example covid) In other words ensure you settlement agreement doesn't have dual interpretations.

And whenever possible, try to peacefully negotiate

[StillPaying]

School exchanges are great for HCP's and the newly separated, where professionals recommend it, but it is not convenient and creates more work. It depends on your schedule, but for me since ages 3 and 5 - we've done week about Fridays at 5. Besides extra curricular, this has been perfect.

[terryfyde]

This is what can happen when the exchange time is at the start of the school day.
Both parents work and the parent starting access is surprised by the information that the child is sick and cannot go to school and that creates a situation or the parent ending their access time may send the child to school sick because they want to be rid of them knowing the school will call the other parent to come pick them up.
Been there and done that.

[blinkandimgone]

What would typically happen is the parent who has the child would let the other parent know and the parent whose time is starting would pick up the child and care for them during the day as it is their time, or make arrangements for the care of the child. Those arrangements may be that the parent who currently has the sick child keeps them for the day and exchange happens at the regular time, if the parent can and is able to do so.

At no point in time do any exchanges involve dropping off a sick child at school and making the school responsible for being the adult in the situation. If the parent whose time is starting will stay with the child or make other arrangements, they can certainly agree to exchange the child in the school parking lot rather than at either home.

This isn't rocket science, just communicate and put the child first.

[Tayken]

I agree. However the 3pm exchange seems to work during the school year.

Do they? Its 1:43PM and one of the kids barfs at school. You are the responsible parent for that residential time. Do you go pick up the child for the remainder of the time from school and then exchange with the other parent.

If residence transferred at the start of school then it would be the parent whom they are going to reside with over night's responsibility to deal with the child who barfed.

If a dispute came forward before the court about this kid of stuff the judge will simply make the start of residence with the start of school so parents can't squabble about who the child was residing with.

I just drop kids off at school and say "Mom will pick you up after school". It makes sense for 3pm (or simply "after school") for when kids are sick.

That scenario the residential time with the other parent would start with the ring of the school bell and not 3:00PM. See my barf example above.

If they wake up in the morning and sick, I simply tell them to stay in pyjamas and rest in bed; and notify mom that kids are not going to school and to pick them up at my place rather than school.

This is conflict making scenario. Avoid avoid avoid. You should exchange the sick child at the start of school to the other parent.

So it seems to work OK for September-June. However, the 3pm exchange time seems terrible during the summer. It literally cuts the day in half, so we can barely do anything on an exchange date as there is clock watching in the afternoon.

That is why majority of agreements/orders that have had say a custody and access professional involved have all residential times swap at the "start of school" year round.

Is changing exchange time a contentious issue? I suppose a 9am exchange time can also cause conflict....where I call ex at 7:30am to tell her that kids are sick. Then comes the unnecessary dispute on judgement on whether kids are actually sick or not...which I want to avoid.

Make an offer to change it for the year. The other parent will reject it probably if I believe you and how you describe them. Time usually changes things. As well the age of the children.

Things change big time for parents when kids are 10+.

[Tayken]

This isn't rocket science, just communicate and put the child first.

I agree.

[Tayken]

I've found that with High Conflict and Extra Curriculars 2/2/3 works better .. (i.e. each parent has the same 2 days of the week for scheduled extra curricular and weekends are alternating).

2-2-5-5.

Every Mon/Tue with Parent A
Every Wed/Thurs with Parent B
Weekends rotate and 5 day stretches.

Best schedule for kids in 50-50. If you want to put them in swimming lessons. Put them on your day and never bother the other parent. Etc... You always know you have the kids on a specific day.

Kid figure out the schedule fast too.

[respondent]

2-2-5-5.

Every Mon/Tue with Parent A
Every Wed/Thurs with Parent B
Weekends rotate and 5 day stretches.

Best schedule for kids in 50-50. If you want to put them in swimming lessons. Put them on your day and never bother the other parent. Etc... You always know you have the kids on a specific day.

Kid figure out the schedule fast too.

not for the sake of arguing, but as kids get older and more involved into sport of their choice, they could have that hockey 9 times a week instead of once, and what's even more exciting is that club to keep you on your toes would keep changing schedule, location etc. Besides, number of items going with kid every couple days would make it nightmare - you didn't divorce to meet your ex with that hockey gear bag few times a week.

[Tayken]

Yep .. 2 reasonable parents wouldn't need this type of extensive Custody Agreement. But most likely atleast one person is BPD/NPD where every single possible ambiguity ideally needs to be locked down or it's just going to cause more conflict.

There really needs to be easier access to a stock / templated Custody Agreements that have all the possible conflict prone scenarios locked down.

I disagree. Most of these arrangements are linked to anxious parents and not a Axis-II disorder of the personality. In many cases these long winded and very tightly wound agreements are to manage parental anxiety and to protect the parent who is not an anxious parent.

These are parents that "see small red bumps" all over their children when even a medical professional does not. For these kinds of parents often they need rules to contain their anxiety.

I have only see 1 personality disordered person in a court room. They had 2 trials and changed the face of 50-50 custody and access (positive change) for men in the province of Ontario. That person used to interact with this forum and the other parent. We all watched it unfold and helped the father in that matter navigate the legal system and how to successfully defend himself.

I have observed MANY cases are driven by:

1. Greed
2. Revenge
3. Stupid people
4. Anxious stupid people
5. Anxious parents
6. Stupid anxious parents
7. Lack of education / understanding

See: https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/...ad.php?t=19845

In the shadowy corners of the internet lives a subset of breakup listicles designed to help you diagnose your ex-partners’ psychopathology. Oh, you didn’t know this was a thing? It totally is a thing. According to several recent pieces on sites like the Huffington Post and Thought Catalog, almost everyone who ever dumped you had a personality disorder. These articles will walk you through the process of deciding just how “crazy” your ex was. Borderline Personality Disorder is used to label someone who seems too emotional, OCPD is assigned to those who can’t compromise, and Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder explain the behavior of someone who doesn’t care about you anymore. “I dated someone just like this!” flood the comment sections of these articles as readers recount their ex’s symptoms.

Good Luck!
Tayken