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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kinso View Post
    However, where it is clear that:

    - The argument was meritless; and
    - The lawyer themselves was responsible for the unnecessary increase in costs.

    The court can and has ordered costs against the lawyer personally. But since it's hard to show the first and nearly impossible to show the second, it's very rare.
    There are a number of lawyers who have a common pattern of behaviour. I have pulled their entire court history and analyzed it with various AI engines. The same lame argument almost in the same paragraph number cut-and-pasted between clients. The same bogus claims. They are crafty as they don't reuse their story's between different jurisdictions.

    For example, they use Story A in two different courts but, never repeat Story A in the same court house. But, Story A is the same in Peel, Durham, Toronto, Hamilton. It appears though in each court house, in different client files, and almost identical in the logical outlay and often the paragraphs are ordered exactly the same and use the same words. 30% of them are 1:1 direct cut-and-paste that any professor reading papers would see from students who have all copied the same essay. They just professor shop.

    I did assist a lawyer demonstrate that the other party's "story" was not authentic, factual, etc... and was just a recital of previous client's story's told time and time again. It was fun to watch the judge's reaction to actual affidavit materials, all sworn by the same lawyer, all with the same story and matching paragraphs.

    If the courts go digital I am going to donate my software so every submitted affidavit gets validated for plagiarism in both actual word and logic function. The future is coming... Lawyers should really worry like a College Student copy'n a paper that should be original thought and word... If a college can use this to assess a student's paper it is not hard to do with a standard form like an affidavit. Google has tools that do this already.

    There are too many "you should have known better" speeches given by judges to lawyers with no resulting action. I have watched Mossip, Richette, Pazaratz, Czutrin, Lemon, Chappel, and even the most honourable Mr. Justice Quinn question a lawyer's judgement on the audacity of a "long shot".

    It is indeed "rare" for costs to be ordered against a lawyer. But, the age of automation and COVID-19 is upon us. Pandemics have this nifty way of increasing automation. With the courts having to go virtual and the acceleration of this after COVID-19... A big change is coming.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/cogniti.../#3d8d80c31f00

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    • #32
      I have pulled their entire court history and analyzed it with various AI engines. The same lame argument almost in the same paragraph number cut-and-pasted between clients. The same bogus claims. They are crafty as they don't reuse their story's between different jurisdictions.
      Unfortunately we don't yet have an online database in Ontario family courts that would permit this. Maybe with new court technology (such as obtaining pleadings online... what a novel thought!), this would be great.

      But I love the idea of exposing cut and paste jobs. If that is found, and it's also clear what was submitted in no way matches the case itself... those lawyers should be fined.

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      • #33
        New technology? You mean like email? Wow this is going to be like Star Trek!!!
        Imagine a hand held thing so you can write entire books with and then send them in an instant anywhere!
        I canít wait for the future to come !
        I heard about this internet thing too
        Golly gee. Who will get paid to run back and forth the courthouse with stacks of triplicate forms?
        How WILL notaries survive?
        Last edited by Abba435; 04-20-2020, 03:24 PM.

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        • #34
          So I can pull a lawyers entire court history and read the cases ?

          How would I go about doing that please ?

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          • #35
            Donald Duck:

            You can find some cases here

            www.canlii.org

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            • #36
              Thank you very much,

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Donald Duck View Post
                So I can pull a lawyers entire court history and read the cases ?

                How would I go about doing that please ?
                It is not a small task as the court system isn't setup for easy retrieval of records.

                The first place to start is on CanLII. Search the lawyer's name and read the case law (if any) that comes up with them in it. All the case law not just the family law stuff. Patterns of behaviour and conduct style is not limited to how they do family law.

                Then go to the court house and request those files. Depending on age they may have to be retrieved from storage. Which takes time. You can also have them search for other cases not listed in CanLII by the lawyer's name. This takes time and depending on the court house you are best to have a lawyer do this. That gets expensive. Process servers may also be able to do it.

                Again, you need to have the clerk pull those files and review them.

                Then, when you find stuff that is good you need to pay the 1$ a page to photo copy it... It adds up on big files. Be prepared to spend thousands in just photocopying if the lawyer is a prolific bullshitter.

                Then, you need to either transcribe the content into digital format or if you get lucky you may be able to OCR it in. Then you need a AI wizard to scan the shit out of it to find the deep patterns in language use, sensitivity scanning, etc... (This is what I had to write and maintain. Its bailing wire and duct taped together but, it mostly works.)

                Its not a cheap endeavor. You can get real lucky though and the first file you pull is all you need. That has happened a few times for me when doing this for lawyers. One-and-done.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

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                • #38
                  Brilliant explanation, thank you very much!

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                  • #39
                    I don't mind if a lawyer resuses a successful argument. It would only be an issue if the argument is only tangentially related to the current case.

                    Alternatively, lawyers could be obligated to provide an originality report to clients. That way if they charge 12 hours to create a report that is 90% plagiarized, the client might question the quality of their representation.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Janus View Post
                      I don't mind if a lawyer resuses a successful argument. It would only be an issue if the argument is only tangentially related to the current case.

                      Alternatively, lawyers could be obligated to provide an originality report to clients. That way if they charge 12 hours to create a report that is 90% plagiarized, the client might question the quality of their representation.
                      These are direct "evidence" that is related as a story. Generally, it is an almost identical recanting of a said story that is not original nor "truthful". Amazing to see how many parents abuse their children the exact same way as an example.

                      At one point they didn't even bother to modify the dates in the allegation. Story was almost identical word-for-word. Totally impossible situations that they would be that close. Not even basic statements of general statements. Full fledged on date x the person refused to let me leave the house blah blah blah and blocked the door with their arm. I am 5'2" and the other parent is 6' and is intimidating. One time the lawyer forgot to change the date of the "arm" incident.

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