Interpreting Christmas

[Beachnana]

Order states Christmas vacation shall be shared equally

Last day of school is Dec 22. First day back is Jan 8.
So Christmas holidays are 23Dec to January 7. 16 days so 8 days each.

Dad is now saying he should have Dec 22 noon ( when school gets out) to Dec 31. Mom is saying it’s Dec 23 to Dec 30 as per past practice and the agreement has been interpreted I. The past. 8 days each.

Dad insisted on the order that child is to be brought to the airport so that what it states. Now he wants to pick up from school.

So another vacation argument. How do you deal with this.

[kate331]

Who's weekend would it be normally on Dec 22/23/24?

[Beachnana]

Not the situation. Dad lives 1000 k away and has access on a schedule. No weekends

[rockscan]

Then you tell him you are following the order as written. You will bring the child to the airport on the day listed.

[Beachnana]

She did and he then called to speak with the child (age 6) and preceded to tellhim he was going to come and get him for Christmas directly from school at which point the child looked at Mom and asked “ where will you be? Don’ t you want me at Christmas?” Mom said “of course I do but it’s Dad’s Christmas this year and I will be here at home but you will have fun”. Child then started crying and told Dad he wants to come and visit but after Christmas as he wants to be with this family at Christmas.

Threw everyone for a loop because there has been no big talk about Christmas just to keep things low key and not make a big deal about it. Now Dad made a point of telling child he will be with him at Christmas the child has put things together and is not happy.

So a mess!

[rockscan]

Mom needs to remind dad (in writing) that he is to work out details with her not the child and to stop dragging kid into the middle.

Is it her year to have child over christmas?

[Rioe]

Ugh, that is terribly manipulative behaviour, to tell the child something that hasn't been previously arranged between the adults, in an attempt to force the other adult to agree. My ex still does that, and it sucks. Although usually it's done to make you look like the mean parent, and in this case it seems to have backfired. Tell the child that you are still working out the exact day of departure with his dad, but it's dad's turn for Christmas so everybody has to deal with that and make their plans accordingly. He'll only miss a boring Christmas at Mom's because she's just going to spend the week cleaning because the real excitement is going to be New Years' there this year. Open stockings at midnight while drinking sparkling juice from fancy glasses!

Order states Christmas vacation shall be shared equally

Last day of school is Dec 22. First day back is Jan 8.
So Christmas holidays are 23Dec to January 7. 16 days so 8 days each.

Dad is now saying he should have Dec 22 noon ( when school gets out) to Dec 31. Mom is saying it’s Dec 23 to Dec 30 as per past practice and the agreement has been interpreted I. The past. 8 days each.

Dad insisted on the order that child is to be brought to the airport so that what it states. Now he wants to pick up from school.

So these previous 'past practice' of the holidays being Dec 23 to 30 have been regardless of the school schedule? How much has that deviated from the order in the past? Deviating is on a case by case basis unless you mutually determined you like the deviation better and want to keep it going forward so you both agree to a Motion to Change and enshrine the deviation in a new order.

You haven't done that, so...

Shared equally makes me think the first week belongs to dad this year, and the second week belongs to mom. Not dad's week happens somewhere in the middle. Is there some practical child-focused reason that pickup at school on the 22nd doesn't work? There are 17 overnights between the 22nd (last day of school) and the 8th (first day back). It's very hard to share that perfectly equally unless you propose to wake the child for a middle of the night exchange.

Dad proposing Dec 22 to 31 gives him 9 overnights, leaving 8 for mom. That's 8 full days and two half days to dad, and seven full days and one half day to mom. I don't think it's unreasonable at all for a parent with so little access to have the extra bits of time.

You could always counter with being okay with pickup at school on the 22 (that saves you having to drive to the airport or even see dad - win!) if the other exchange happens on the 30th instead of the 31st. That gives dad 8 overnights and 9 for mom, 7 full days and two half days to dad, 8 full days and one half day to mom. I don't see that it makes a huge difference though unless you have plans for a long drive somewhere that exchange weekend for your holiday destination that you would prefer to be able to do earlier?

[Beachnana]

So in the past it’s been the 8 days each starting on the first Sat of the Christmas holidays and counting 8 days then transitioning on the evening of the evening of the the 8 day.

This year the holidays are late so that weekend is a big rush plus it also happens to be the childs birthday on the 23 rd of Dec.

Had a Dad first discussed his plans with Mom and made the arrangements prior to telling the child things would likely have gone smoother. But as usual Dad just announces his plans and then gets pissy” when Mom does not agreeing. - immediately threaten CAS and legal proceedings. This year is a little more stressful because the child has said I do not want to go for Christmas but will go after.

Mom has said we are celebrating Christmas when you get back but Child is not happy. Dad is not happy and Mom is not,happy. So I hate ££@%*% Christmas!

[Beachnana]

I suggested a drop off at the airport on Dec 22 1hour prior to flight. This has been the,previous practice on all visits.
Then return on the evening of the 30 th and pick up from the airport again as in previous years.

[Beachnana]

I should also say that there has not been one visit arranged that Dad has not,attempted to change the agreement to suit his needs.

This summer even though it was not his year to have first choice on vacation days he still managed to send many nasty emails demanding accommodation to,his schedule and called CAS when he could not get his own way.

CAS exonated Mom and suggested Dad was a bully.

[rockscan]

I hate christmas too. My partners ex pulled this stunt the first year he was to have them. The ensuing disagreement painted him as an abusive bully and the kids stopped speaking to him. That led to us making our own plans the last few years. Sadly for your daughter her son is six making it harder.

Perhaps its time for her to just follow the agreement and put dad on ignore. Let him bluster about whatever. Hes a bully and paying attention to it feeds him. Your daughter has been more than reasonable with this jerk.

[Rioe]

I should also say that there has not been one visit arranged that Dad has not,attempted to change the agreement to suit his needs.

This summer even though it was not his year to have first choice on vacation days he still managed to send many nasty emails demanding accommodation to,his schedule and called CAS when he could not get his own way.

CAS exonated Mom and suggested Dad was a bully.

In the case of an ex who is a bully, you need an agreement that has less flexibility in language. Instead of it saying "Christmas is shared equally, with dad getting the first week in odd years and mom in even years" you need it to also say "regardless of when the Christmas holidays and child's birthday land, the first half of the holiday begins the first Saturday after school ends and the second week begins the second Sunday." That way, you can both predict years in advance what the days will be and can book any tickets accordingly and not have the same argument year after year.

She could suggest they agree to modify their agreement legally to be less vague and more predictable in future years to avoid these demands and discussions and modifications that confuse and upset the child. Maybe she could sweeten it with agreeing to his change this year while things are still vague, if he'll agree to change their order to reduce vagueness.

[tunnelight]

if order states that Chrstimas is to be shared equally then that would mean from 22nd after school until Dec 30th evening. Mom would have Dec 30th evening to drop to school

Dec 23rd to 30 makes no sense as the father wouldn't have a full weekend.

What is the issue with father picking up child from school anyway ?

[standing on the sidelines]

when I was in school when the dismissal bell rang on the last day of school we considered that the start of our holidays.

Dad wanted it written into the agreement about the airport so it should be the airport. I would count the days in 24 hour periods. If the kid gets on the plane at 5pm then 5pm the next day counts as 24hrs or one day.

no sense in making it more complicated then it has to be.

[kate331]

Now that the child is upset about not spending Christmas with his Mom/Grandma, and to avoid a teary goodbye at the airport, might not be a bad idea for the Dad to pick up from School. Last day of school before Christmas would be a "fun" day, which should have the child in a good mood. Just my 2 cents, this is going to be my first official Christmas alone, so I really dont know whats ahead for myself. I'm learning from all of you, especially what to avoid, such as vague Court Orders.