Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

arguing for sole custody

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • engineer
    replied
    I am answering a few points made by a few posters.

    I was widowed shortly after the oldest was born.

    Both kids called him dad. The youngest only just learned that her sister is a half sister. We just never got around to telling her we had both been previously married. He disciplined both - more the older than the younger, but some of that is related to their relative ages. Teenagers tend to garner a lot more negative attention than do their younger siblings.

    I do encourage both kids to talk with him. Sounds morbid, but I explained to the oldest that should something happen to me, she would be sorry that she alienated herself from him. I remind the youngest to answer his texts when he sends them.

    I fear the situation that Ms Mom has - the ex just saying no because he can. His primary tool for any kind of discussion was to refuse to participate when we were together, so I can only imagine it will be worse now that we aren't.

    It appears that he wants joint custody more for appearances than anything else. He has not indicated that he wants scheduled access at all.

    The only reason I brought up his new wife was because he chose to be with her over his kids since he met her in 2010. I have gone through the travel dates, recovered digital images, chat logs, etc, etc. No doubt, he was an absentee father as much by choice as anything else. I get that he wanted split from me and I am well past that. The kids were collateral damage, and that is inexcusable.

    I am going for SS as well. My career has suffered, and it is unlikely that I will completely recover. I made sacrifices for the benefit of his career. I would prefer a lump sum payment but we will see what we can negotiate. He is in his late fifties, so once her retires, if he even can, I will out-earn him for about 5 years simply because I am younger and will remain in the workforce.

    I would like CS for both kids, including section 7 items, based on line 150 of his return. I would like arrears at least back to August 2013, because I started actively pursuing CS at that time. I hear conflicting accounts of whether you can realistically get retroactive CS, so we will see how it goes and I will take what I can get.

    Leave a comment:


  • Links17
    replied
    So custody is shared, good!

    Child Support.
    -20yr old is entitled to CS as long as in full-time school
    -12yr old too
    -univ fees are payable in prop to ur incomes

    Assuming you prove loco parentis (did they call him dad, did he discipline them etc... might be interesting to approach it comparatively)

    Arrears to collect

    SS

    -based on what you have said you have a compensatory claim to SS even if you are currently independant since you sacrificed for the family unit.
    -I would suggest you try to justify how much you lost out due to ur family
    -you can ask for a mnthly amount for X # of months (since you are already independant a term is reasonable)
    -you can also ask for a lump sum which would NOT be taxable to you nor tax deductible to him you can get that by taking the total monthly amounts and reducing by 35%

    Access
    -if I were you I would ENCOURAGE your daughter to see her father so long as he game and she is comfortable. You are obligated to encourage contact. She is 12 so she will determine things in a few years anyways and he has another family he prob won't pursue.
    50/50 is not the default, status quo is the default and the best interest of the kids

    Leave a comment:


  • arabian
    replied
    OP you will have your work cut out for you with the financials but I'm sure you're up to the task.

    Many people don't have the analytical skill set to present the documentation in a logical, concise manner.

    Remember to instruct your lawyer - not the other way around. Do not give the lawyer free reign to write letters on your behalf. Make sure the lawyer provides you with a detailed monthly invoice.

    Focus on the process and perhaps ask your lawyer for an outline so you have an idea of the steps and time-line.

    Leave a comment:


  • standing on the sidelines
    replied
    you do realize that most likely your ex will argue that the dad of the 20yr old should be paying support etc for that child/adult? Just something you should prepare for.

    Leave a comment:


  • MS Mom
    replied
    Originally posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
    Custody and Access are two different issues.

    Custody is about decision making. You have to prove he isn't competent to make parenting decisions, most of which would be joint decisions with you anyway. You haven't presented anything relevent to that.
    Competency and interest are two completely different things. Your ex may be perfectly 100% capable of making a parenting decision of any kind. It doesn't mean that they won't stall the decision-making process to the point where it's hurting the child. Just because they are capable, doesn't make them reasonable. A bad ex can make joint custody a complete nightmare.

    I've just waited over a week to hear back from the disinterested ex with joint custody on braces for our daughter. And the answer. "I do not have the funds for this. It is not necessary." I only wonder if he brushed his permanent retainer and looked at his old braces when he typed his well-thought out and considerate response? He hasn't seen the child in over 2 years and is 2500km away, so he's pretty much the expert on what she needs and doesn't need.

    I think the OP is a little stunned by a sudden interest from a formerly disinterested party. She equates this to his new marriage, I'm sure that's down to timing. If X happens at the same time as Y, one can connect those dots quite easily.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beachnana
    replied
    Originally posted by engineer View Post
    Beachnana,

    Actually, the 12 year old hasn't expressed a desire to see him. She sees him when he avails himself and I can get her there. She is happy enough to go along with it, but I don't see her instigating plans. He came by the other day to pick up some stuff and I had to go upstairs to get her to come down and say hello.
    Oh sorry I thought you had said she was interested in seeing her Dad because some of friends visit their Dads on the weekends. You did say she was not interested in overnights.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beachnana
    replied
    Originally posted by engineer View Post
    ok.

    Probably not worth it to push the custody issue. I already make the decisions on the kids. I am more worried about him throwing in monkey wrenches needlessly over time just because he can.

    He indicated in his answer to my application that wanted me to have primary residence and him secondary with liberal and generous access, including overnight visits in the future, but would take me as primary with liberal and generous access as an alternative.

    My youngest does not want to stay with him overnight - and no I did not ask her this she volunteered it. She has a few friends with separated parents so she has seen what others do. She is getting old enough to have a say in this. Besides, she is soon to be a teenager, and that brings a host of changes in behaviour.

    I am looking for the table values, based on line 150 for both kids, plus extraordinary expenses for post-secondary, orthodontics, etc. I will cover the extracurricular costs for my youngest out of my operating budget.

    He is the only father the oldest has ever known - he has been in the picture since she was 3 and we moved in together when she was 4. He claimed her on his taxes, referred to her as his daughter on his benefits, referred to her as his daughter to friends and family, listed himself as a guardian with the school board, etc etc. He acted as no less a father to her than he did to the youngest, and in many respects, he was more actively involved with her in the 4 years before the youngest was born than he ever was with the youngest. Everyone - schools, neighbours, friends - assumed that he was the father of both kids. You would not be able to distinguish parentage of these kids based on his actions. He never referred to her as a step-daughter, just his daughter, until after we separated.

    I agree that my time is best spent on the financial aspects. Those are generally much more amenable to analysis, and it is more obvious as to what should be included and what shouldn't be. I haven't spent a lot of time discussing support issues with my lawyer, as I figure that is based on the tables and he knows more about this than I do.

    I haven't spent much legal time discussing custody, either. I can see how that can get way out of control. I just posted this hoping that there was a list of document types that I should include with my brief.

    So the consensus is that going for sole custody could be long, costly, painful, and not worth it. Unless the ex capitulates quickly, I will agree to joint with liberal and generous access.
    I think you have taken a good look at your situation and are moving in the right direction. I guess you just needed to rant. We have all done that and then we are pulled back into reality with a sharp tug from the experienced " wise ones" on the forum.

    For your 20 year old you might want to calculate cost of schooling and ask for a contribution towards it based on income.

    Good luck with the financials. In my experience if you have all the documentation and proof for your financials sorted out and presented clearly and fairly your ex, who seems to be lacking in this department, will have a hard time disputing any claims you put forward. I doubt if he kept much of a paper trail.

    Leave a comment:


  • stripes
    replied
    I think you're making the right decision here (and I want to add that many of us have been in your shoes - so angry [justifiably] with the ex that it's hard to make logical decisions without emotions driving the bus. That's one of the good things about this forum - people will tell you when your emotions are driving the bus, and not always in the most polite way, so you can pull back and make the smart choices).

    Don't buy your lawyer a new Mercedes, save the time and money to enjoy life with your daughters. Your ex sounds like a cretin - be glad you're done with him while you've still got lots of life ahead of you.

    Leave a comment:


  • engineer
    replied
    Beachnana,

    Actually, the 12 year old hasn't expressed a desire to see him. She sees him when he avails himself and I can get her there. She is happy enough to go along with it, but I don't see her instigating plans. He came by the other day to pick up some stuff and I had to go upstairs to get her to come down and say hello.

    Leave a comment:


  • engineer
    replied
    ok.

    Probably not worth it to push the custody issue. I already make the decisions on the kids. I am more worried about him throwing in monkey wrenches needlessly over time just because he can.

    He indicated in his answer to my application that wanted me to have primary residence and him secondary with liberal and generous access, including overnight visits in the future, but would take me as primary with liberal and generous access as an alternative.

    My youngest does not want to stay with him overnight - and no I did not ask her this she volunteered it. She has a few friends with separated parents so she has seen what others do. She is getting old enough to have a say in this. Besides, she is soon to be a teenager, and that brings a host of changes in behaviour.

    I am looking for the table values, based on line 150 for both kids, plus extraordinary expenses for post-secondary, orthodontics, etc. I will cover the extracurricular costs for my youngest out of my operating budget.

    He is the only father the oldest has ever known - he has been in the picture since she was 3 and we moved in together when she was 4. He claimed her on his taxes, referred to her as his daughter on his benefits, referred to her as his daughter to friends and family, listed himself as a guardian with the school board, etc etc. He acted as no less a father to her than he did to the youngest, and in many respects, he was more actively involved with her in the 4 years before the youngest was born than he ever was with the youngest. Everyone - schools, neighbours, friends - assumed that he was the father of both kids. You would not be able to distinguish parentage of these kids based on his actions. He never referred to her as a step-daughter, just his daughter, until after we separated.

    I agree that my time is best spent on the financial aspects. Those are generally much more amenable to analysis, and it is more obvious as to what should be included and what shouldn't be. I haven't spent a lot of time discussing support issues with my lawyer, as I figure that is based on the tables and he knows more about this than I do.

    I haven't spent much legal time discussing custody, either. I can see how that can get way out of control. I just posted this hoping that there was a list of document types that I should include with my brief.

    So the consensus is that going for sole custody could be long, costly, painful, and not worth it. Unless the ex capitulates quickly, I will agree to joint with liberal and generous access.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beachnana
    replied
    Your 12 1/2 year old has expressed a desire to spend time with her Dad. So you should let her. If he screws it up, she will let you know if she no longer wants to visit with him. She is old enough to make these decisions herself. You get some alone time to work on your career or whatever. Ask her wants she wants and then get her to call Dad and ask to come visit. Keep it simple. You cannot shield her from his lack of interest. If he is not interested he will make excuses and that will be the end of it.

    Sure lawyers will tell you to go for sole custody. They can see a big battle and a big pay cheque for them. Joint custody means informing each other of decisions and giving each other a defined amount of time to respond. No response, then you can assume he is okay with your decision. Ie to put child in local school. To get braces etc. To sign up for dance. If he does not pay you will need to make the decision to spend $1000's to force him, or just budget to cover it yourself.

    As long as you have a clause that says the child resides with you. The amount of major decisions you need to make over the next 4 years in minimal. Once she turns 16 neither of you get to make her decisions. She will tell you both that she can make her own thats for sure.

    You sound capable and educated. So move on and don't sweat all the details.

    Separate the custody and access. I would say go for joint custody with open access and make it clear that Dad and daughter need to work this out themselves.

    Then sort out the financials separately. Prepare a financial statement with supporting documents and send it to him via your lawyer. Let him spend time and money refuting it. You always have to ask yourself. Will the amount I spend on legal fees be more than what I am going to actually gain. Spend $20,000 to get $15,000.

    As a professional you will not want to be reliant of SS. The CS will be something that you will use to provide for your children that is what it is for. So if Dad ignores your request for ski lessons, will not help with University. Pay for it yourself out of the child support.

    My daughter manages a home, car, vacations, savings for education and provides well for her son on less than $60 k. She gets a small amount of child support and puts that away to pay for activities and extras she knows Dad will not ever agree to pay for.

    Move on and enjoy life and your children.
    Last edited by Beachnana; 02-19-2014, 07:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • arabian
    replied
    I think these posters have valid points. From what I surmise in reading many threads on here about child custody is that the fight can drag on and on from case conference to case conference. Depends upon how stubborn two parents are and personal finances, particularly when retaining lawyers. Your daughter is 12.5 yrs old, not a toddler. Don't you think that the money would better spent on her post-secondary education? You seem to be a well-educated woman who can support herself. Don't think for one minute that your lawyer doesn't see you as "money in the bank." You are justifiably angry at your ex. In time the anger will dissipate.

    You spent over a decade with this guy so it would be kind of lame to now say he is unfit to share custody simply because he has found the 'woman of his dreams.' You'd be best to utilize your analytical skills on assembling the financial documents for the financial aspect of your divorce.

    Of course make sure the SOB pays his proper share of CS.

    Leave a comment:


  • stripes
    replied
    My only experience with this comes from having a close relative who lost custody of his kids (a decision I completely agree with, by the way). In his case, what was needed for him to be denied custody was proof that he was incapable - not unwilling or uninterested, but incapable - of parenting. For him, this took the form of documentation related to cognitive impairment (disability), unstable housing arrangements, and a history of CAS intervention.

    So I'm thinking you would need a pretty big smoking gun. What you've described here sounds like evidence that your ex is not interested in being a co-operative parent and is not willing to work with you - passive-aggressive, as you say - but not that he lacks the capacity to function as a parent. I think the dice may be loaded against you.

    Do you have evidence of a criminal history for your ex? Or of untreated substance abuse problems? Or have there ever been investigations by a child welfare agency? Are there documented episodes of violence? Is he chronically homeless or suffering from an untreated mental illness? That's the sort of thing I think you need to overturn the presumption in favour of joint custody. Just being money-driven, a jerk, and emotionally deaf isn't enough.

    Also bear in mind that any lawyer will tell you what they think you want to hear. You could easily go broke fighting a losing battle. I would think your best bet is to hammer out an agreement with primary residency for you and not open the question of custody, so you can get him to start paying up, based on his line 150.

    Leave a comment:


  • DowntroddenDad
    replied
    Originally posted by engineer View Post
    The oldest is 20. Custody is not an issue.

    The youngest is 12 1/2. Custody is an issue. She likes seeing him, but does not want to spend weekends and holidays with him. I didn't ask her this, by the way, she volunteered it when she realised that some of her friends spend weekends at their dads' places.

    I want to kill this issue off as early as possible. There are many issues surrounding finances and property division. The more I can settle quickly the better.

    My ex is passive aggressive - meaning he will resist an opportunity for the kids just because he can if he has decision making authority. He likes to bully and posture when he thinks he can win, but his case is based on what he wants to recall rather than what really happened. He isn't data-driven like I am - he has formed his case without a shred of paper. He is likely to capitulate on an issue once he realises he cannot win it. If I present the right data at the right time I can kill issues off quickly, minimise costs, and move on.

    I have loads of data on financial issues. Those are easy to interpret and are data-based. Custody and access arrangements are more touchy-feely, based on documents that don't contain data. It is only when you look at an array of them that the narrative becomes clear. I just want to know what are the best things to present for this.
    Custody and Access are two different issues.

    Custody is about decision making. You have to prove he isn't competent to make parenting decisions, most of which would be joint decisions with you anyway. You haven't presented anything relevent to that.

    Access is how much time he will spend with the children. The default is 50/50, but you may have a shot at "every other weekend" and the occasional overnight, because you can show a status quo of not having regular visitation since separation. He will try to argue that you prevented this. Your counter is to show the documentation, emails etc that show you offered and he declined.

    Financial issues for child support should be cut and dried. The low end of the range of child support based on the tables should be a given, more than that and you have to demonstrate a reason why. You can get a motion together for this and have it looked at quickly. as opposed to going to trial for other issues which will drag on and on.

    Get it out of your head that there is a narrative. The judge doesn't want to hear about his new wife, or how bad a husband he was. He/she doesn't care, it isn't relevent, it doesn't matter. Divorce is no fault. Yes I am repeating myself.

    Asset division will depend on getting the information.

    Leave a comment:


  • engineer
    replied
    The oldest is 20. Custody is not an issue.

    The youngest is 12 1/2. Custody is an issue. She likes seeing him, but does not want to spend weekends and holidays with him. I didn't ask her this, by the way, she volunteered it when she realised that some of her friends spend weekends at their dads' places.

    I want to kill this issue off as early as possible. There are many issues surrounding finances and property division. The more I can settle quickly the better.

    My ex is passive aggressive - meaning he will resist an opportunity for the kids just because he can if he has decision making authority. He likes to bully and posture when he thinks he can win, but his case is based on what he wants to recall rather than what really happened. He isn't data-driven like I am - he has formed his case without a shred of paper. He is likely to capitulate on an issue once he realises he cannot win it. If I present the right data at the right time I can kill issues off quickly, minimise costs, and move on.

    I have loads of data on financial issues. Those are easy to interpret and are data-based. Custody and access arrangements are more touchy-feely, based on documents that don't contain data. It is only when you look at an array of them that the narrative becomes clear. I just want to know what are the best things to present for this.

    Leave a comment:

Our Divorce Forums
Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
Working...
X