A leg to stand on?

[earthmother1970]

My eldest daughter has just recently turned 14. Today she returned from a week long holiday with her dad (her three siblings stayed with me) and announced that she was going to now switch from residing primarily with me to a 50/50 share with her dad. This was the first I had even heard of the idea.

Her father had absolutely no prior discussion with me about it and rather than tell her it was a subject which would need to be discussed between her parents before any decision could be made, he just said she could do it.

When I told him I was not cool with that because I feel like I've been railroaded and put into the position of being the bad guy for not wanting to automatically go along with the whole idea, he gave me crap about it being her decision and he wasn't going to say no to his daughter.

He showed up to collect her and when I said she was not permitted to leave, he threatened to call the police on me and then started dragging out the going to court stuff. I tried to point out that I feel there is a legal obligation to consult with the other parent regarding any changes in the schedule of the children and he reiterated his argument that she had every right to make a decision on her own and that there was no necessity to consult with me beforehand. I don't know if the police would have shown up or not, but it was not a risk I was willing to take because I couldn't see what good could come out of the possibility of my two youngest daughters wondering why the police had showed up at their doorstep.

He and I do have joint custody, and I am listed as the primary residence parent in the final separation agreement.

I guess what I am wondering is if there is any point of contacting my lawyer about any of this? I am just feeling rather railroaded and disrespected. If he and I are supposed to make joint decisions regarding education and religion and medical issues, surely a change in access should also be on the table?

[Qrious]

What does your SA specifically say about access? (What is listed as parenting time for both of you?)

Whatever is spelled out in the SA is the way it is until both parents agree otherwise, or a court orders it. A fourteen old can not make that decision on her own. A judge WILL, however, seriously consider the wishes of the fourteen year old when making a decision.

I don't now our story, but it may be good for your daughter to be 50/50 between you. BUT... You need some time to discuss and get used to the idea. Your X had no right to make this unilateral change on his own. And now your daughter is in the middle.

[earthmother1970]

The agreement states: The children will reside primarily with the wife. The children will reside with the husband as follows:

a) alternate weekends from Friday after school until they are returned to the wife the following Sunday afternoon.
b) One alternate mid week visit.

2) Such further and other times for the Husband to spend with the children shall be determined by mutual agreement between the two parties.

3) The parties shall review the regular residential schedule in three years.


Regarding dispute resoulution:

If the Husband or wife seeks a change in the support or parenting arrangements in this agreement, he or she will give the other, in writing.
A) Notice of the proposed change
B) evidence supporting the proposed change
C) any request for information necessary to determine the issue


The final agreement was signed one year ago.

[Mess]

If he had consulted you, would you have said yes?

Are you only saying no because you are mad he didn't check with you first?

Do you think you can force your daughter to live with you full time against her will?

Do you think the courts can force a 14 year old to live somewhere she doesn't want?

Do you think if the child wishes an equal relationship with both parents, this should be ignored because of an agreement signed years ago?

Do you think she will look back on this and be thankful you prevented her from developing a closer relationship with her father?

Do you think that after living with you full time for all these years, you are suddenly going to lose her completely, even though she still wants an equal time with you?

[Qrious]

Then this is what access is until you both mutually agree to change it. From a legal standpoint, he had no right to do what he did.

If your X wishes a change in access or parenting time, he has to follow your agreement - which is to discuss it first.

Maybe remind him of the wording. If he is not willing to discuss this with you so you may reach an agreement, call your lawyer.

This must be a shock to you, to have come out of nowhere. You need some time to digest and get used to the idea. Mess has some questions that will help you put this into perspective.

[earthmother1970]

If he had consulted with me, there is a very real probability that I would have said yes. My son spent all of last year living with him and is now switching to a 50/50 split.

I am clearly cross with him. Not because of her splitting 50/50 but because it was presented as a fait accompli.

Approximately a year and a half ago, she refused to see him for two months altogether because he dragged her up several steps by her arm when she asked for a couple of extra minutes before going to bed. And I worked damn hard to get her to agree to go back to visit him at all.

The agreement is one year old. He signed it. He can read as well as I can, and it clearly states what etiquette is to be followed.

To back that up : I have never even so much as committed to giving the kids permission to attend a birthday party without consulting with him if the party falls on the weekends he has with the kids.

[blinkandimgone]

So...this isn't about the kid at all, and you technically don't have a problem with it, WOULD have said yes if he'd consulted you , but since he didn't you're saying no - despite that you feel it's in her bestinterest to say yes if he consults you first?

Read that, think about it. Read it again. Think about it some more. Then realize that what you're currently doing is wrong, based solely on the fact that you'd give a different answer of you'd been asked for your permission.

Perhaps neither dad nor the kid thought it would be an issue at all, given that you let the other kid do it last year and it didn't occur to either of them that you'd have a problem with it?

[Rioe]

You need to figure out a way to say yes without setting a precedent that the father can deviate willy nilly from the court order whenever he feels like it. Tricky. All I can suggest is to remind him of the agreement wording, express your displeasure at being surprised and railroaded into changing it, and stress that you prefer to discuss these things ahead of time so that the children are not involved. United front and all that.

Then take the measure to officially amend the agreement for the change in access before any associated change in CS occurs.

[earthmother1970]

I should have used the word possibility rather than probability. The other child was 16 when he said he wanted to spend a year with his dad, and the reasons he gave for wanting to do so were very different to what my daughter gave as her reasons.

Obviously, only one side is being presented here, but I have done everything by the book regarding the legal side of things. I have always consulted with him on any decisions which directly effect the children. This matter of access is not the only time he has deviated from the legal agreement which he signed.

My daughter was not contactable during the week she was away, as he did not leave any itinerary of where she would be or any avenue to get in touch with her - even though it is specified in the SA as a requirement. If I dared to do that, he would be the first to threaten to take me to court over it.

I'm not trying to be unfair about any of this...but how is it fair that he gets to play by his own designated set of rules and I have to play by the book?

[standing on the sidelines]

look at it this way, you say no and make a battle of it your daughter may hate you for it and go live with her father and cut you out of her life.

Let her go with your blessing but also let her know that the door is always open in case it doesnt work out the way she thinks it will.

[earthmother1970]

Thank you for everyone's input.

All I really want is a return of the respect. Son who has been with dad for the past year and is now switching to a 50/50 called me several months ago and wanted me to come pick him up straight away because he wanted to move back in with me. He was in tears and extremely emotionally fraught. I calmed him down over the phone and told him that of course he could come back if he truly wanted to do so, and that we would work things out. After making sure he was okay and ending the call with him, I immediately called his father to tell him about the call I had just received. I did not go charging over to his house to demand that my son be turned over to me immediately or threaten to call the police if he did not respect the decision made by my son.

Instead, I chose to be an adult about the whole situation and deal with it calmly and rationally and under the terms of the agreement - ie: consulting with him in a non-inflammatory manner as per the terms of the actual SA.

[earthmother1970]

If one is to apply his logic about children being able to dictate the decision making process,then does that mean the next time my 10 year old daughter adamantly declares she does not want to go to her dad's house and throws up in anxiety, I should simply tell him that he needs to respect her decision and that I am not going to say no to my daughter? How about when a child says they do not want to go to an activity which he has arranged without asking me about it first falls within my designated weekends?

[Mess]

If one is to apply his logic about children being able to dictate the decision making process,then does that mean the next time my 10 year old daughter adamantly declares she does not want to go to her dad's house and throws up in anxiety, I should simply tell him that he needs to respect her decision and that I am not going to say no to my daughter? How about when a child says they do not want to go to an activity which he has arranged without asking me about it first falls within my designated weekends?

No it does not. Both a reasonable parent, and the courts, would put a different level of weight on the desires of a 10 year old, compared to a 14 year old.

Your comparison is not logical, and you are reaching for justification for your emotional reaction.

We are supportive of you, we are all parents too, and have been through similar situations. You have to understand that you are in a grey area. You have some points here, but you are not entirely in the right either.

The respect you feel you should be receiving from your ex has nothing to do with your children's residence. Where they live has nothing to do with how he treats you.

While I am sure that you calmed your child down after an incident of conflict with his dad, I am also sure that you are not a perfect parent either, because I am not, and none of us are.

[FightingForFamily]

Most ex partners don't have a lot of respect for each other. If they did, maybe they would have been able to stay together. Waiting for respect from an ex spouse is like waiting for the sun to turn green. Don't hold your breath, you don't live life on their terms any more, and vice versa.

[earthmother1970]

I don't believe I have claimed to be perfect, but I do abide by the terms of the agreement. I also understand that I have an insiders perspective on all of this which is unavailable to the outsider looking in.

I have spoken to my lawyer this morning though. She says he is in violation of the agreement, and that if I were to take him to court, the outcome would most likely not be favourable for him. He is not legally allowed to make unilateral decisions or repeatedly break the SA clauses. As my lawyer said, in court, it's a case of whose nose is cleaner. Court is my last option of choice though. Meanwhile, she has advised that I send an email to him as a reminder of the legal terms of the agreement, and she has stated that if he tries to make any further unilateral changes to the agreement, that I pursue the legal options available.

What is obvious is that despite a mediated agreement, he is not capable of behaving in a reciprocal manner. There is no united front despite the stipulations of the agreement. He has turned the power over to the child, and she can now use the moving threat as a weapon against both of us. Someone is going to have to be the adult here, and it seems to be me.