Need Help! OCL or Private lawyer, Assessor???

[Qrious]

Please - I need your help. Some things have transpired over the weekend and I need to get S15 help.

Brief background (I need to be very careful of how much info I can share here but I'll try to give you enough):

Relationship between S15 and his father (X) has been going downhill since January. X has repeatedly told S15 and myself that S15 is old enough to make his own decisions as to when or if he will visit X (current schedule EOW as we live about 200 Kms apart).

S15 very upset with his dad and feels dad has chosen new family over spending time with him (recently remarried woman with 1 child). Has "chosen" (with father's permission) to see X less and less over last few months. As I mentioned in another thread, Xs new wife recently texted s15 accusing him of being hurtful, shameful, etc. s15 is still very hurt about all that.

I contacted X two times recently and asked him to come see s15. He refused saying that s15 doesn't seem to want to see him anyway.

Late last night, X texted s15, which resulted in X and S15 texting back and forth (s15 was staying at his grandparent's house for night). It got quite ugly between them and ended badly.

I will begin calling around for counselling for s15 first thing on the morning, but I need help with what to do with the rest. I think something like OCL involvement would be needed (X is telling s15 that he thinks I've influenced him) but I don't want to wait that long. X is accusing ME of influencing s15 to not want to see him.

Can I hire a lawyer for s15 to have his own? Is there another professional who can assess the situation like OCL and be a voice for s15?

How can i get father and son into counselling together? X wont communicate with me since January, except to call me names, etc. I don't know what to do!

I can PM more info if necessary.

[Mess]

Honestly I think you should stand down.

The relationship between the dad and son is between them. You can't get a court order for them to get along. You cannot get counselling for the son to enable a relationship unless the dad is completely on the same page.

Ideallly the son and dad should get counselling together, without you being involved. Your involvement is not going to solve anything.

If the dad makes a formal charge against you of alienating the son, it is at that point that you should be considering the OCL. Until that time, you are sticking yourself in between them and making something that is not your issue into something that is.

I understand that you are not putting all the details here, but if you have not been served by the father, you have no business involving lawyers in something that is between them.

I don't think a 15 year old, or anyone else, should be thrust into counselling unless they are asking for it.

If this were me I would stay out of it.

[Qrious]

For the most part, I DO agree with you, Mess. I did try to let them work it out... It's not going well. I PM'd you some more details about why I am immediately concerned. Thanks so much!

[standing on the sidelines]

totally agree with mess. Another couple of points that stood out for me were the son has chosen not to see his father and the texting that got ugly. Sounds like he hasnt been on his best behaviour also.

Maybe mom made a remark against the new wife and her child that wasnt appropriate or that the son wasnt suppose to hear but did.

[arabian]

Qrious - feel for you.

I'd hazard a guess that the new wife will do everything she can to ensure the child she has with your ex is #1, even if that means ensuring your S15 is out of the picture. It sucks but it's not uncommon.

Don't think there is a heck of alot you can do. It sounds as though the situation is volatile and I'd try to plan some things for just you and your son - perhaps a short trip somewhere.

Somewhere down the road the two of they may reconcile. They may not. A sad reality of divorce.

[Qrious]

totally agree with mess. Another couple of points that stood out for me were the son has chosen not to see his father and the texting that got ugly. Sounds like he hasnt been on his best behaviour also.

Maybe mom made a remark against the new wife and her child that wasnt appropriate or that the son wasnt suppose to hear but did.

Thanks SOS. I see why you might say that, given the few details i have provided. I WAS a little surprised at the texts myself - not the things X was saying, but that S15 was replying the way he was (assertively and very honestly). S15 is hurting terribly over recent events with his father and I think lashed out last night.

There is, of course, a long story... The new wife recently sent a horrible text message to S15 late at night saying things to him that no adult has ever said to him before. It's all in another thread. S15 is not a fan right now.

[Qrious]

Qrious - feel for you.

I'd hazard a guess that the new wife will do everything she can to ensure the child she has with your ex is #1, even if that means ensuring your S15 is out of the picture. It sucks but it's not uncommon.

Don't think there is a heck of alot you can do. It sounds as though the situation is volatile and I'd try to plan some things for just you and your son - perhaps a short trip somewhere.

Somewhere down the road the two of they may reconcile. They may not. A sad reality of divorce.

Thanks Arabian. It's much nicer when there's peace and no one is hurting. I was blessed to have 5 years of that.

The others are right... I need to step away. Apparently, I'm a little more upset than he is... He just went out swimming with friends! Lol.

Thanks everyone - especially Mess who has been calming me down and helping me focus through PM. And on Canada Day as well!

[Mess]

Unfortunately I'm working, so typing at the computer is possible. I'd rather be at the beach.

[caranna]

The others are right... I need to step away. Apparently, I'm a little more upset than he is... He just went out swimming with friends! Lol.

I'm not saying that your son is manipulative, but kids of all ages do try and push their parents' buttons now and then.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...anipulate-pare

[Tayken]

Please - I need your help. Some things have transpired over the weekend and I need to get S15 help.

A single weekend of events may not constitute an emergency and probably not the OCL and/or private custody and access assessor.

Brief background (I need to be very careful of how much info I can share here but I'll try to give you enough):

Relationship between S15 and his father (X) has been going downhill since January. X has repeatedly told S15 and myself that S15 is old enough to make his own decisions as to when or if he will visit X (current schedule EOW as we live about 200 Kms apart).

Bad position for the father to take in this matter. My point being:

As Justice Quinn stated in Gerenia v. Harb:

Undoubtedly, there are many tasks that a child, when asked may find unpleasant to perform. But ask we must and perform they must. A child who refused to go on an access visit should be treated by the custodial parent the same as a child who refused to go to school or otherwise misbehaves. The job of a parent is to parent.

I am of the opinion this applies to a child of 15 and both parents should be reinforcing that the child attend the access visits.

S15 very upset with his dad and feels dad has chosen new family over spending time with him (recently remarried woman with 1 child). Has "chosen" (with father's permission) to see X less and less over last few months. As I mentioned in another thread, Xs new wife recently texted s15 accusing him of being hurtful, shameful, etc. s15 is still very hurt about all that.

I would keep out of the issues that your son and the father is having. Their relationship should be theirs to work out. You should reenforce that your son should be spending time with his father on a regular basis. Also, that your son should be discussing his concerns with his father directly. There really isn't anything you can do that will make the situation better. Your involvement will only escalate the situation and make it worse possibly.

I contacted X two times recently and asked him to come see s15. He refused saying that s15 doesn't seem to want to see him anyway.

Again, there is probably an agreement in place for access. If it is one of those open ended ones, then have it changed to a specific access schedule and tell your son that you will be abiding by it and expecting him to go when scheduled.

Late last night, X texted s15, which resulted in X and S15 texting back and forth (s15 was staying at his grandparent's house for night). It got quite ugly between them and ended badly.

Again, your contributing and being involved in the matter may not be helping. It is a matter between your son and his father. There really isn't much you can do to help them with their relationship. Your son is a young adult but, not an adult yet. The other parent is the other parent. You can't "control" either your son or his father. Anything you will do could make the situation worse.

I will begin calling around for counselling for s15 first thing on the morning, but I need help with what to do with the rest.

Firstly, if your son who is 15 walks into the clinician's office and states that they want to be given autonomy over their medical records and emancipate both you and the other parent from any medical responsibility over them. At age 16 the child can remove themselves from school without parental consent.

Also, if your son doesn't want to go to a therapist even if you sign him up for one it could backfire on you significantly. You can bring a horse to water but, you can't make it drink. No mental health worker will see a client who is unwilling to attend for therapy.

Also, if you have joint custody... I don't recommend this course of action without the consent of the other parent.

I think something like OCL involvement would be needed (X is telling s15 that he thinks I've influenced him) but I don't want to wait that long. X is accusing ME of influencing s15 to not want to see him.

OCL is not necessary. They don't have the skills generally to investigate parental alienation.

Simply put you should review these articles:

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW (Especially this one)

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Reading these articles could save you potentially hundreds of thousands in legal and assessment costs. A private assessor runs 250-350 an hour by the way. A PAS investigation would be about 60+ hours of work + HST.

Can I hire a lawyer for s15 to have his own? Is there another professional who can assess the situation like OCL and be a voice for s15?

Yes, there is jurisprudence for this but, it is not an easy thing to establish. I do not recommend trying to "litigate" a solution to a problem which is between your son and his father.

How can i get father and son into counselling together? X wont communicate with me since January, except to call me names, etc. I don't know what to do!

Step back and don't get involved and don't try to "control" the situation.

Good Luck!
Tayken