Private custody evaluation: 2nd child/parent observation

[mom2three]

Actually Arabian, I have read all the past posts. You seem to have missed the part where the Mom and Dad agreed to her move because the Mom agreed the children would be going to school in Dad's district and she would do the extra driving. How could the father be 'unsuccessful' in preventing a move when they agreed to it??? It was the Mom who then pulled the pranks.

You make it sound like Dad should just roll over and accept the damn situation: that is tantamount to saying Oink, Involved Dad, Iceberg and Working Dad should all just sit back and let their ex's run the show!! I cannot for the life of me understand your logic when you are a great supporter of Iceberg in particular (who deserves all the help and respect).

Is it so hard to understand that a father wants to spend time with his child and he has every right to? I dont' think the father is even asking for 50/50 right now - he is trying to get some damn time with his child over the summer and it is being stonewalled because a child is pulling the reigns and saying he won't go. Ridiculous.

Shame on THAT mother and every mother out there that thinks they can do this. Hate the ex, but don't punish the child.

It's not about hockey! You THINK it is about the Dad being jealous? The Dad was doing everything to ENSURE his son could play hockey. If the mother REALLY cared about the child she would have put the child into hockey the 30 minutes away. But NO, she chose to say it was Dad, make the child suffer and blame it on Dad. In that regard I have 100% respect for bthom. In no way was he preventing his son from playing. In no way was Hockey Canada preventing his son from playing. The only one who did that was Mom.

And you want bthom to roll over and accept the situation?

[Assume]

I don't know much and am new here but if his son is alienated, it's going to be a long hard road back to any normal parent-child relationship I would think. The child no longer trusts Dad, as this is what Mom seems to be teaching him....

I knew a guy whose ex was attempting to alienate the kids. He called her to ask if over spring break, the kids could come on a cruise with him. Ex of course said no, kids heard about it and we're like " woo hoo were going!!". This threw a big wrench in her plans to keep kids from Dad and showed kids how much Dad cares...Now I'm not suggesting you "bribe" your son, but if both your kids are in hockey and love it so much, why not plan a fantastic trip somewhere to do with hockey...or like a week at some super- duper hockey camp in the states or something,,,,if your son hears his sister going on and on about summer plans with Dad and how much fun it will be, you might be able to break thru the very strong barrier your ex seems to have created...

And no, I'm not suggesting anyone should "bribe" their kids but if your son hears your daughter telling him all the fun stuff you two do on her visits when he wont come and hears about the fantastic hockey vacation extraordinaire you have planned, he might just turn around a bit...

I do think though that due to all the conflict and stress, we can sometimes be our own worst enemy.

[arabian]

Iceberg's situation is different. He has no delusions of grandeur when it comes to his child. His child has leukemia and it is imperative for the two parents to work together, particularly when transporting the child to and from chemotherapy. Yes I most certainly support Iceberg in his fight to maintain 50/50 custody when the mother is trying to get 100% custody. He has stated that he would move close to where the mother lives if it came down to it. In other words, he is reasonable and only wants what is best for his child.

I agree it is shameful that parents try to alienate other parents. Parental alienation is gender-neutral and often is encouraged by extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles) and the community at large.

In this situation I do not lay blame on one parent over the other. To resolve the situation it will require BOTH parents' cooperation. I only hope they refrain from putting the child in the middle. Probably much more to this story and it is times like this that it would be fascinating to hear the mother's take on things.

Perhaps something to consider, which I have stated on several occasions, is to replace the hockey with another sport. When I brought it up before I believe I was criticized as the kid was considered to be the next Wayne Gretzky. It seems to me that hockey parents can get a tad too emotional. I've witnessed this often when watching friend's kids play - usually parents around fighting or swearing at each other.

No I support people for standing up for themselves. At what cost though?

[mom2three]

Perhaps something to consider, which I have stated on several occasions, is to replace the hockey with another sport. When I brought it up before I believe I was criticized as the kid was considered to be the next Wayne Gretzky. It seems to me that hockey parents can get a tad too emotional. I've witnessed this often when watching friend's kids play - usually parents around fighting or swearing at each other.

No I support people for standing up for themselves. At what cost though?

Absolutely, pick another sport, if that was the issue and I don't think that is the issue here. The father is trying to get time with his child for the summer, but child won't go because HE wants to play where Mommy is.

If the tables were turned, would the Mom wholeheartedly support the daughters whims and drive daughter back and forth on her time? I highly doubt it.

On a side note. All kids that play hockey dream about becoming an NHL player; afterall, do we not encourage our children to reach for the top and be all they can be? Yes, some parents can become too emotional, but the numbers really are small.

All three of my children play hockey. One is particularly gifted at the sport and I encourage him wholeheartedly. He has no intention of becoming the next Gretzky because he doesn't know who he is but he has had the fortunate opportunity of meeting an NHL player who gave him the best advice anyone can ever give to a child: remember to say thank you to your parents everyday. They don't want to be sitting in the arena. They only reason they are there is because they love you. Damn I love that man!

And as long as my son follows that simple philosophy in life he can dream of being an NHL player any day. And if he changes his mind and wants to become a crossdresser, I will support him in that too, but he better not touch my beauty stuff

[arabian]

mom2three you obviously have approached your children's love for hockey in a sensible manner. I agree with most of what you talk about. Positive role models are very important in child's development.

In the case of this particular poster it is much different than your situation. There is a history here of police being called to family home; plenty of time in court; plenty of time disputing league hockey registration regulations. And yes mother's b/f "played minor league hockey."

Do take the time to read each and every post and you will understand what I perceive to be the real issue. If it purely was a matter of access rights then the judge would have likely ruled on it accordingly.

Doesn't make sense that the mother can be in violation of specified access and not be held accountable.

I guess this is what happens when you let kids decide things.

[mom2three]

mom2three you obviously have approached your children's love for hockey in a sensible manner. I agree with most of what you talk about. Positive role models are very important in child's development.

In the case of this particular poster it is much different than your situation. There is a history here of police being called to family home; plenty of time in court; plenty of time disputing league hockey registration regulations. And yes mother's b/f "played minor league hockey."

Do take the time to read each and every post and you will understand what I perceive to be the real issue. If it purely was a matter of access rights then the judge would have likely ruled on it accordingly.

Doesn't make sense that the mother can be in violation of specified access and not be held accountable.

I guess this is what happens when you let kids decide things.

I have read it. What I haven't read is 'plenty of time in court'. I do believe that the ex attempted to get an emergency motion respecting the hockey but that was not addressed and a motion was to be heard on March 7th.

A custody evaluator was either agreed to or order (though I believe they only had a case conference so it must have been on agreement). And that is where it stands.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression from you that you believe the 'hockey' matter was decided by the courts and bthom continues to fight despite that. If you can point me to the place where he indicates he lost on a motion for any of this stuff, please do so. (I was baffled the other day when someone could post something another poster stated and yet I cannot read that post - like it appeared into thin air - so maybe I don't have access to a post???)

And actually, I don't think my situation is much different than his situation; in fact it is eerily familiar. Mom has custody, Mom moved far away (very long story, but move was consentual), and Mom supports hockey. Mind you yesterday was the last day on the ice and I happily gave the rink the finger lol!

[arabian]

From what I can surmise the whole situation is awash in allegations coming from both parents (mother wanted custody because father was unfit, couldn't help with french) and father felt children were "exposed to/experiencing mental abuse." Of course we only hear one side of the story and it is not pretty. The whole thing seems to be centered around hockey. These people only live 30 minutes apart.

It is quite apparent that these are both high conflict parents. It takes two to tangle and engage.

I don't know didly squat about hockey, nor do I have any desire to, but it seems that it is the common denominator for dispute. If I was a judge I'd order the kid kept out of hockey for a season, or until such time as the parents can provide a parenting plan that effectively addresses having both parents equally and harmoniously involved in the sport with the child.

Maybe there is a full-time year round hockey school the kid can get enrolled in. Someones going to get hurt if this battle continues on like it has in the past.

[mom2three]

Arabian:

Hockey was the straw that broke the camels back, but it is a red herring that you have fallen for. It's about a parent wanting to control and is using a child to effect that control. So yes, that is child abuse.

It does take two to tangle and engage; does that apply to you also? It's so interesting how you are quick to judge this man but get defensive when people react to your spousal support issues. You don't want them to judge you, which is evident by the facts you bring forth to establish your entitlement.

So instead of judging and branding this man a high conflict parent, why don't you take a phrase of your own writing "people need to stand up for themselves" and put it into context with this man? He has come here to learn how he can stand up for himself AND his children. It's not like parents are given the 'how to survive parenthood, especially during divorce' handbook in the maternity ward.

You are correct that we don't have both sides of the story, but the hockey one is very factual (and provable), which leads me to side with him at the moment.

[OhMy]

IMHO this whole situation is sad. Regardless of who is right or who is wrong this young boy is being pulled between parents he loves.

With past posts he is being 'pulled' harder by his mother due to the antics, however dad is also pulling back.

I forecast that the outcome will be a diminished relationship with one or possibly both parents.

Sad sad sad. I guess the fight as to who will win wont matter as in the end both will lose due to the long term damage to the child because of the conflict over a sport.

Sometimes backing down and disengaging from a fight is the appropriate thing. It may not be in this case as all sides are not known. Regardless this child is paying the price.

[mom2three]

IMHO this whole situation is sad. Regardless of who is right or who is wrong this young boy is being pulled between parents he loves.

With past posts he is being 'pulled' harder by his mother due to the antics, however dad is also pulling back.

I forecast that the outcome will be a diminished relationship with one or possibly both parents.

Sad sad sad. I guess the fight as to who will win wont matter as in the end both will lose due to the long term damage to the child because of the conflict over a sport.

Sometimes backing down and disengaging from a fight is the appropriate thing. It may not be in this case as all sides are not known. Regardless this child is paying the price.

You are so right OhMy. But the saddest part is that it continues to drag on because our courts are backed up etc.

I remember thinking at Xmas time when the Toronto lawyer could get some court time to have her damn monkey back, "FFS, she is allocated court time but there are parent out there stuck in the backlog who can't see their kids" Made we want to throw up.

[arabian]

Mom2three: What the fuck does my spousal entitlement have to do with anything we are discussing here? Why the personal attack on me? Totally uncalled for.

OhMy - you put it perfectly but watch out, Mom2three might unleash some venom about your personal situation if you don't agree with her. Yikes watch out - she has the puck!!! LOL

[mom2three]

Mom2three: What the fuck does my spousal entitlement have to do with anything we are discussing here? Why the personal attack on me? Totally uncalled for.

OhMy - you put it perfectly but watch out, Mom2three might unleash some venom about your personal situation if you don't agree with her. Yikes watch out - she has the puck!!! LOL

Go back and read it again. It was not a personal attack.

I have no intention of unleashing venom on anyone. You have accused a man of being a high conflict parent and you get offended about me personally attacking you?

I have no issues with you having spousal support. That is between you, your ex and the courts. If you read it again, I noted how you get defensive when others bring up their distaste for it. Same goes for bthom. You don't want to be judged, so don't judge another.

[arabian]

Arabian:

It's so interesting how you are quick to judge this man but get defensive when people react to your spousal support issues. You don't want them to judge you, which is evident by the facts you bring forth to establish your entitlement.

News flash for you - I don't need to establish entitlement - that was done several years ago at the time of my divorce. I have been in front of 6 judges since that time when my ex took me to court, unsuccessfully, to have SS overturned. My entitlement has been endorsed now by a total of 7 judges.

You may not agree with my opinion on this particular thread. Some people think it's all about the winning of an argument that counts. I simply do not and agree with OhMy's post.

[mom2three]

News flash for you - I don't need to establish entitlement - that was done several years ago at the time of my divorce. I have been in front of 6 judges since that time when my ex took me to court, unsuccessfully, to have SS overturned. My entitlement has been endorsed now by a total of 7 judges.

You may not agree with my opinion on this particular thread. Some people think it's all about the winning of an argument that counts. I simply do not and agree with OhMy's post.

It was in reference to times where people get pissy about paying spousal and you have indicated your entitlement and why (cause the bugger screwed you). You get defensive. So here in this post you get pissy with the father and call him a high conflict parent. Once again, you are quick to judge, but don't like being judged.

[arabian]

whatever you think mom2three... You are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my opinion.

I have no problem being judged or I wouldn't have gone to court the past 7 times. I actually enjoy being judged, but by experts not people holding unfounded grudges. Big difference.

Lets let this drop as I'm sure the other posters are yawning right about now. You and I disagree. Lets leave it at that why don't we?