Private custody evaluation: 2nd child/parent observation

[kidsRworthit]

The scope of the Private Custody Evaluator...

Is an assessment and discussion/report if required, or could it include a second child/parent interview, with recommendation that father support s9 engaging in summer activity?

Note: the contract was read, and it could not be found where counselling recommendations were part of the process.

A second parent = father and s9 interview was requested in which our s9 would be asking me to support him engaging in a summer activity in an area close to his mother's (who moved 30 mins. away)

d11 is engaging in summer activity in rooted community. Father has proposed several summer activities for s9 in same rooted community as his sister. I am uncomfortable about agreeing to meeting in which I would be nodding to my s9 and saying yes to his (influenced) demands, where it would mean separate geographic area than his sister/excessive driving, when he has ample local options for local recreation.

Feel free to chime in if you have Custody Evaluation knowledge


Background:

Parents have agreed upon 50/50 parenting relationship of s9 and d11. Parents lived 3 min. walk apart from one another, then bf moved in to mother's house. Mom moved 30 mins. away from kid's school area/father's house. She assured father she would take care of all driving to school and extracurricular and nothing would change. 4 weeks later, it did change.

Mother has effectively "forum shopped" and used an activity the child likes to upset the 50/50 agreed status quo. s9 has not followed this status quo since Dec. 2012, whereas his sister has.

[mom2three]

Hey bthom:
Nice to see you back!

Here is what I am getting from your post. If I am reading your post correctly, your son has been living with the Mom since December because of the hockey right?

And now you want your son to attend summer activities in your town on your time for the summer to avoid the excessive travel (he wants summer activities at Mom's hometown).

And you will be having a custody evaluator meeting with your son and he has indicated to you that he wants to engage in activities at the town in which he now lives?

Can you please clarify whether I am understanding this correctly? Is is a bit confusing.

[arabian]

My observation of your post:

30 minutes is not far. Some people have to drive for 3 hrs for custody/access exchange.

Involving a 9 yr old in an ongoing dispute with your ex probably isn't a good idea.

Perhaps leave the kids at home and try to come to a workable solution.

Considering that the two of you don't get along it is probably a good thing that your ex moved 30 minutes away.

Did you ever resolve the acrimonious hockey situation? If I recall correctly you could not agree on where your son was going to play hockey.

Where do your children go to school - closer to your home or your ex's?

[kidsRworthit]

Hey bthom:
Nice to see you back!
Nice to return.
This is an incredible information source thanks to the wisdom of many sharing their experiences.

Here is what I am getting from your post. If I am reading your post correctly, your son has been living with the Mom since December because of the hockey right?
Correct - just opened his Christmas gifts last week under observation of Custody Evaluator (3 months without father in his life)

And now you want your son to attend summer activities in your town on your time for the summer to avoid the excessive travel (he wants summer activities at Mom's hometown).
Correct. Prior to mother moving away, she gave me assurances (2x) nothing would change and she and bf would do all driving.
Also, his sister has said she wants to play in her 4th summer activity with her friend. (in dad's rooted community/school area)

And you will be having a custody evaluator meeting with your son and he has indicated to you that he wants to engage in activities at the town in which he now lives?
Clarification:
- custody evaluator has conducted observation of children with father at father's place (s9 had adult allegation after allegation against father)
- 2 hrs. went by and a sincere effort was made to engage and comfort him, although he has experienced heavy parental influence and there was minimal progress; not so with our d11 (everything was ideal)
- custody evaluator met with son at school, and spoke with him about his concerns
- now the ce would like to meet with s9 and myself, with intention of hearing my son's concerns, reassuring him that all is well, and that I support him engaging in summer activity near mom's place

Can you please clarify whether I am understanding this correctly? Is is a bit confusing.

Apologize for being brief - impressive memory you have!

[kidsRworthit]

My observation of your post:

30 minutes is not far. Some people have to drive for 3 hrs for custody/access exchange.

Involving a 9 yr old in an ongoing dispute with your ex probably isn't a good idea.

Perhaps leave the kids at home and try to come to a workable solution.

Considering that the two of you don't get along it is probably a good thing that your ex moved 30 minutes away.

Did you ever resolve the acrimonious hockey situation? If I recall correctly you could not agree on where your son was going to play hockey.

Where do your children go to school - closer to your home or your ex's?
Kids attend school close to dad's (10 min walk)
Mom is encouraging our d11 to register in high school (7-12) in area in her school bus zone (55 mins./ 2 buses), rather than school 1.5 km. away from the kid's existing school as it offers a scholarship program.

Hi Arabian,

Would you believe that life was GREAT upon moving from the matrimonial house. My first 12 months were ideal: the kids had a three minute walk between mom and dads. They could walk to school in under 10 minutes (less than the bus takes). If they forgot things, they could walk between mom and dad's anytime.

Parenting coverage of our children could be done on a whim, and was.
Drop offs and pick ups were ideal, so was school morning and afternoons.
Dad would do am, and mom pm irrespective of who's parenting week. Morning breakfast for dad, and evening homework for mom meant engaging with our kids every day. Life was great.

Enter the bf, and cessation of homework, then move away to bigger place for him and his big dog. WIFK (What's In it For the Kids?) has been what I've been asking since I learned of the proposed move from our children - then approached my ex and asked her if this was true.

Hockey - our s9 did not play most of the hockey season. I proposed to my ex to drop recreational hockey and let our son play pickup hockey and pond hockey. She feels the competitive opportunity exists in her local area (although he did not make the tryout), and not so in my community.
The boy is caught in an adult disagreement and it is unhealthy to involve him in an adult issue.

Although: bf has been Assistant Coach of the hockey team in newly moved to community in division our s9 would play. He has personally rented ice for the team several times and invited our son to skate with the team.
I'd have no issue, if Boy and Girl were in same area. This is far from case, as house league in mom's new area covers diverse geographic area with routine required travel. Girl is separated from boy and parent on duty misses opportunity to participate in both their games (as they expressed) on respective single parent's week.

__________________________________________________

Sharing this nugget from a well spoken and respected individual:

Mother moved away from habitual school and community

Logically evaluating the situation described one would have to consider in accordance with the "best interests" (24.(1) of the CLRA).
a. Why the mother does not reside in close proximity to the school in question?
b. With regards to 50-50 full joint custody and equal access what benefit does the mother have in not residing close to the habitual school for which the children in question attend? Can she bring forward cogent and relevant evidence that it is truly (in accordance with 24.(1) of the CLRA) that they not abide by the Hockey Canada by-law.
The "status quo" established in the children's attendance at school in regard to this by-law. It is in the children's "best interests" to play in a league close to their habitual school so they can play with other children from that neighborhood (their friends) and be close to the community for which they habitually go to school in. To disrupt this "status quo" it would require extraordinary circumstances.

The mother should have carefully considered her residential relocation and consulted with professionals prior to acting so she could have gotten a better perspective before acting on possibly her own dreams and wishes. The mother's decision to move to xxx seems like a matter of her personal "best interests" over the children's "best interests". The determining factor should be the childrens "best interests" not the other parent's beliefs, feelings, desires and/or wishes.

[arabian]

Interesting points, however, your ex has a right to get on with her life. 30 minutes commute isn't the end of the world. Somehow the two of you have to suck it up and do what you can to help each other out.

Cooperate with each other and learn to Co-parent with Compassion.

Mother has moved and probably won't move back. You have to accept that and move on to new interests.

I'd drop the adversarial attack on each other and try to figure out how to get along. Fighting continually over extra-curricular activities is such a waste of time.

[kidsRworthit]

Interesting points, however, your ex has a right to get on with her life. 30 minutes commute isn't the end of the world. Somehow the two of you have to suck it up and do what you can to help each other out.

Cooperate with each other and learn to Co-parent with Compassion.

Mother has moved and probably won't move back. You have to accept that and move on to new interests.

I'd drop the adversarial attack on each other and try to figure out how to get along. Fighting continually over extra-curricular activities is such a waste of time.

Time and distance is not end of the world.

Taking responsibility for one's actions is the adult and child lesson to be learned.

Agreed: this is truly about our children. Our children didn't ask for mom and dad to separate. Our children didn't ask mom to move away from dad. Our children didn't ask for the inconveniences following the move either.

Change when positive and constructive is healthy. If there is no value for our children, and in fact the opposite* ; then the change initiator should be held accountable and live up to their assurances in the children's best interests

* it has meant more unnecessary travel for the children, missed events and activities (especially in rural winter setting), less friend dates, etc.

[mom2three]

Interesting points, however, your ex has a right to get on with her life. 30 minutes commute isn't the end of the world. Somehow the two of you have to suck it up and do what you can to help each other out.

Cooperate with each other and learn to Co-parent with Compassion.

Mother has moved and probably won't move back. You have to accept that and move on to new interests.

I'd drop the adversarial attack on each other and try to figure out how to get along. Fighting continually over extra-curricular activities is such a waste of time.

Arabian: I have to stick up with bthom on this one (besides the mother being an ass moving the kids in her best interests). The reason is that the fight over extra-curricular activities is not one that was engaged in, but one that ensued because a mother would not follow Hockey Canada regulations.

Hockey Canada has anticipated fights like this with parents in close proximity (but in separate homes), but within a catchment area with many leagues. Thus they have a regulation that children must register in the association that has jurisdiction in which the childs school is: that was bthoms jurisdiction.

Thus, even if he WANTED to cooperate and let the ex get her way and the son get his way, he had absolutely NO SAY where the child can register. The reason for this is because parents like to "league shop".

For the wife to fight it, despite knowing Hockey Canada's regulations speaks volumes as to her character: I don't like the rules so I won't follow them, stomp my feet and be petty, notwithstanding the fact it hurts the child.

Was a sweet mom, keeping her son from playing hockey for a season just to make a point. Hell, I had to travel two hours three X's a week last year so I could ensure my child could play and I would do it again.

[mom2three]

Bthom: Just my personal opinion? I find it incredibly disturbing that your son did not see you for three months. Makes me shake my head. There are many times my kids dont' want to go to Dad's (events missed). I remind them that they don't have a say in the matter - end of story.

Have you spoken to the custody evaluator on your own. I ask because I am having a hard time with this 'summer' thing. It doesn't matter whether the son wants activities at Mom's place: summers are a time where a parent schedules activities for when they have access.

Why would a custody evaluator even engage in the conversation with a child? It bothers me that the custody evaluator wants you to have a reciprocal conversation to ensure the child that you will support the child in engaging in activities at mothers residence.

Um, yes you do support him engaging in activities at Moms ON MOMS TIME. You will enroll him in appropriate activities in your town when you have access.

Sounds like the child is running the show (being influenced of course) and the custody evaluator has engaged his whims.

[kidsRworthit]

Bthom: Just my personal opinion? I find it incredibly disturbing that your son did not see you for three months. Makes me shake my head. There are many times my kids dont' want to go to Dad's (events missed). I remind them that they don't have a say in the matter - end of story.
Absolutely - miss him dearly. And it's not healthy to separate brother and sister on the father's parenting week.
I made many efforts to see him in person, call him and I reach out wherever I can. Unfortunately since Dec. 23, relations between my son and myself have deteriorated further - as a result of parental influence.

You have shown you are a mature and supportive parent, so you should appreciate and identify with this previous Forum classic quote from a renown contributor:

As the Honourable Mr. Justice Quinn has clarified:

Undoubtedly, there are many tasks that a child, when asked may find unpleasant to perform. But ask we must and perform they must. A child who refused to go on an access visit should be treated by the custodial parent the same as a child who refused to go to school or otherwise misbehaves. The job of a parent is to parent.

Have you spoken to the custody evaluator on your own. I ask because I am having a hard time with this 'summer' thing. It doesn't matter whether the son wants activities at Mom's place: summers are a time where a parent schedules activities for when they have access.
Precisely. I have spoken to the custody evaluator on my own and explained my side of the situation. Interestingly, I was called this morning and asked if I could have an impromtu meeting this afternoon with our son where I would listen to his concerns and support him (in his agenda which originated elsewhere). I was troubled when I heard this, and voiced my concern to the Evaluator at the time.

Why would a custody evaluator even engage in the conversation with a child? It bothers me that the custody evaluator wants you to have a reciprocal conversation to ensure the child that you will support the child in engaging in activities at mothers residence.
Exactly! A 9 yr. old is not at an age of psychological development in which his" views and preferences, can reasonably be ascertained", as
parental influence could be the reason for the child's preference.

Um, yes you do support him engaging in activities at Moms ON MOMS TIME. You will enroll him in appropriate activities in your town when you have access.
Logical

Sounds like the child is running the show (being influenced of course) and the custody evaluator has engaged his whims.

Unfortunately. It is inappropriate to empower a child to make adult decisions. An adult further condoning this activity under the guise of improving the parent/son relationship, does little to address the real issue; and send the appropriate message to our child.

Thank you for your perception and meaningful insight!

[arabian]

inconvenience?

* it has meant more unnecessary travel for the children, missed events and activities (especially in rural winter setting), less friend dates, etc.

Hardly the end of the world. Mature adults should be able to work this out rather than plugging up our court system. I would hate to see how these parents would act if there was a real serious issue that had to be dealt with.

[kidsRworthit]

Hardly the end of the world. Mature adults should be able to work this out rather than plugging up our court system. I would hate to see how these parents would act if there was a real serious issue that had to be dealt with.

Arabian,

I am receptive to constructive comments about my real situation with a High Conflict Parent. If you have something of value to add for the postees or the Forum readers, it is encouraged.

As has been mentioned many times by the Forum Moderators and others: this Forum is NOT intended as a soapbox to voice your subjective comments.

[arabian]

You don't seem to get it do you? You are high conflict yourself. It is pretty apparent that you can't get over the simple fact that your ex-wife has a life and has moved on. Your comments about your ex's boyfriend are petty but I guess quite relevant to your mind-set.

It is a reality that children suffer through divorce, particularly those who have parents who put them squarely in the middle of their disputes.

Who in their right mind, with the "best interests of the child," put their child in a position where they have to choose between mom and dad?

This is not a one-time situation, rather an ongoing battle between two adults who don't seem to have the sense to keep their children out of things.

I hope your children someday experience a nice, pleasant summer vacation at a camp or somewhere away from this tug-of-war.

[mom2three]

You don't seem to get it do you? You are high conflict yourself. It is pretty apparent that you can't get over the simple fact that your ex-wife has a life and has moved on. Your comments about your ex's boyfriend are petty but I guess quite relevant to your mind-set.

It is a reality that children suffer through divorce, particularly those who have parents who put them squarely in the middle of their disputes.

Who in their right mind, with the "best interests of the child," put their child in a position where they have to choose between mom and dad?

This is not a one-time situation, rather an ongoing battle between two adults who don't seem to have the sense to keep their children out of things.

I hope your children someday experience a nice, pleasant summer vacation at a camp or somewhere away from this tug-of-war.

Arabian:
It is amazing how people perceive things so differently through words only. I read your post and keep thinking to myself "What the hell am I missing"?

You don't get it? What kind of a comment is that? You seem to be supporting the mother's decision to move away and completely alter a child care arrangement without communication with the father. How is THAT in the best interests of the child?

I don't perceive from bthoms posts that he is putting the child in a position to chose between Mom and Dad; in fact, it was the Mom who did that and she 'won'. The mom has 'allowed' a child of 9 to dictate where he chooses to live. The mom chose to serve he own self interests by not following rules and her son suffered as a result (not being allowed to play hockey). Please tell me how that is in the childs best interests? But for her actions, this child did not need to be denied his fun; bthom was willing to put his son in hockey exactly where HC regulates him to be.

Hockey is just one activity. Bthom is speaking about summer access. His position is that when if/when the child is with Dad, the child will be enrolled in activities where Dad lives; how is that high conflict? The CHILDS choice (and I have an issue with a 9 year old voicing his desire) is to stay with Mom all summer becuase he want to do activites in Moms town.

That speaks VOLUMES to me: child is running the show and Mom is allowing it (or rather, encouraging it). Keeping the child out of things? The mother is doing the exact opposite, at the expense of Dad's time - please enlighten me as to how that is in the best interests of the child? On the contrary, it is a control issue that Mom is winning at the expense of the child, IMO.

And where exactly does bthom make petty comment about the boyfriend? If you are referring to the bf as involving the child in hockey outside the childs jurisdiction, then the bf is no damn better than the mom; both have absolutely no respect for rules and regulations and that midnset ultimately hurt the child. Don't like the rules, fine express your dislike but sweet geez, don't punish the child.

Remember, it is the Mom who is putting the child in the middle of things, not Dad.

[arabian]

mom2three

I guess you haven't read all of this guys past posts (since last August) Note the fact that he says they have exhausted mediation and several lawyers already to try to resolve this issue. This is not a new situation, rather one that has gone on unresolved. Now they are going to put the 9 yr old in a situation where he essentially has to chose between parents.

The mother moved 30 minutes away. While I agree she shouldn't have, the fact is that the father was unsuccessful in preventing this. Unless he thinks he can somehow miraculously get a judge somewhere to order the mother to move back to the district there is little he can do. How hard and how long does one keep a battle alive?

I feel the father is jealous of the boyfriend's ability to "rent ice time" and bribe the kid into wanting to play hockey in the area that his mother now resides. This isn't the first time a parent bribes a child. Yes it is unfair but not a damn thing he can do about it.

Many people on this forum have to deal with one parent moving a child away from a school district. Sometimes out of province.

30 minutes is not a long commute by car nowadays. Yes it is inconvenient as hell. My parents used to drive me 45 minutes each way to a riding stable. I'm sure they weren't thrilled with doing it all the time but they did it just the same.

I think the question remains - when is the battle over? In my opinion you have to take a long hard look at what prolonging a battle is doing to your kids. Do you really, honestly think the best interests of the children are being served in this case?

These guys have been through mediators, courts and now are on private custody assessors. What's next?

No I think what the mother did was selfish, however, it is done.
30 minutes isn't a big deal. Yes divorce is inconvenient but one has to suck it up and move on. I think the whole thing is an obscene waste of money. It must be quite embarrassing for the boy as I'm sure the whole community is aware of the controversy - at least the hockey coaches would be. Yikes!