Picked up our D6 today. She had an older poop accident so we went to clean it before our drive. I asked our daughter about this and she started telling me that she hides it at mommys house because she gets in trouble. I found out that she gets a very long time out, and if Step dad is home she also gets a spanking along with the time out. I do not feel that its a very hard spanking. There are no marks or anything that I can tell and no pain sitting that I can tell. I know that a person "acting" as a parent may spank a child but does this count? Thoughts please. Is there anything I can do?
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Take your child to your doctor, have the child explain to the doctor what has been happening. The doctor will be obliged to file a report. This will have far more weight than anything coming from you. The report will come from the doctor, not you, and the investigation will not be by you, the judgment won't be by you, it is out of your hands, and you don't have to worry about your own bias, or how you will be perceived.
If you don't have a relationship with your ex where you can draw boundaries around issues like that, I don't think there is any other way to really deal with it effectively.
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Agree with Mess...
However to put a different view of things... a very good friend of mine is in a blended relationship. They both have young children. About 2 years ago, CAS came to the house because his step son was talking at school that he got spanked the night before. When CAS showed up they questioned the step dad about it and he was very clear and blunt with them...
Yes, the child acted out, Yes he spanked the child and placed him in time out. No he didn't feel it was wrong, as he treated all the children the same. He used nothing but an open hand. He never pulled down the pants, never used a "weapon" it was a basic discipline. He then asked the CAS worker to show him where it was illegal to spank children. He actually referred the CAS worker to Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada
Section 43 of the Criminal Code — an exception to the law on assault
The Criminal Code contains a section that provides another exception to the law on assault. Section 43 allows parents, caregivers and teachers to use reasonable force to correct a child's behaviour or a student's behaviour without being found guilty of assault.
Section 43 of the Criminal Code says:Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.This means that, under some circumstances, when parents, caregivers, or teachers use reasonable force to control a child or keep the child or other children, safe, they may not be found guilty of a criminal offence.
However, section 43 is not a defence for every action a parent, teacher, or caregiver may take. A parent, teacher or caregiver may only use reasonable force. And they may only use that reasonable force when it is connected to their duties to the child. Section 43 cannot be used as a defence, for example, when a child has been harmed or abused.
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I think there is a very big difference between spanking because of a behaviour and spanking because a child has an "accident". Also, is the part of section 43 that you gave here it states "This means that, under some circumstances, when parents, caregivers, or teachers use reasonable force to control a child or keep the child or other children, safe, they may not be found guilty of a criminal offence.
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I am not sure how spanking because a child has an accident would be trying to "keep her safe". One thing spanking if your child runs out into the road, or goes to put hand on hot stove and so on and so forth.
I am fundamentally against spanking, while I realize some parents do use it and can understand that people have different parenting techniques. Making a child afraid to come to a parental figure when she has an accident because she will be spanked seems a little extreme.
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Originally posted by fireweb13 View PostI think there is a very big difference between spanking because of a behaviour and spanking because a child has an "accident". Also, is the part of section 43 that you gave here it states "This means that, under some circumstances, when parents, caregivers, or teachers use reasonable force to control a child or keep the child or other children, safe, they may not be found guilty of a criminal offence.
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I am not sure how spanking because a child has an accident would be trying to "keep her safe". One thing spanking if your child runs out into the road, or goes to put hand on hot stove and so on and so forth.
I am fundamentally against spanking, while I realize some parents do use it and can understand that people have different parenting techniques. Making a child afraid to come to a parental figure when she has an accident because she will be spanked seems a little extreme.
Question about these 'accidents' is she messing in her pants or is it just an issue with improper wiping. I'm asking because a 3 yr old having an occasional accident is one thing - 6yrs old having what sounds to be more than occasional accident is worrisome. If could be something emotional.
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Please understand I was not condoning his behavior based on her having accidents. I was merely stating that spanking is not really something to be too overly concerned about, unless it becomes abusive.
I do however agree with TOTD- at age 6 these accidents should not be happening frequently. We are going through a toush time with D4 at night as her mother insists on her wearing pull ups every night because then she doesn't have to get out of bed. Here, we don't use pull ups, as she knows enough to get out of bed and go. That being said, last weekend she peed her bed, he reasoning was 'because I didn't want to get out of bed because I don't have to at Mommy's'. She was punished for this (no spanking). She lost her bedtime story and movie the following night, and was put to bed half hour earlier.
As Mess said, if you are very concered take her to her doctor.
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The Criminal Code contains a section that provides another exception to the law on assault. Section 43 allows parents, caregivers and teachers to use reasonable force to correct a child's behaviour or a student's behaviour without being found guilty of assault.
Section 43 of the Criminal Code says:Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.This means that, under some circumstances, when parents, caregivers, or teachers use reasonable force to control a child or keep the child or other children, safe, they may not be found guilty of a criminal offence.
However, section 43 is not a defence for every action a parent, teacher, or caregiver may take. A parent, teacher or caregiver may only use reasonable force. And they may only use that reasonable force when it is connected to their duties to the child. Section 43 cannot be used as a defence, for example, when a child has been harmed or abused.
When a man picks up a screaming woman and throws her into his car, ties her down and drives away, it's assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement. When a man picks up his screaming daughter, puts her into her carseat and drives away, it's called good parenting.
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Originally posted by TiredOfTheDrama View PostI
Question about these 'accidents' is she messing in her pants or is it just an issue with improper wiping. I'm asking because a 3 yr old having an occasional accident is one thing - 6yrs old having what sounds to be more than occasional accident is worrisome. If could be something emotional.
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Originally posted by Berner_Faith View PostI do however agree with TOTD- at age 6 these accidents should not be happening frequently. We are going through a toush time with D4 at night as her mother insists on her wearing pull ups every night because then she doesn't have to get out of bed. Here, we don't use pull ups, as she knows enough to get out of bed and go. That being said, last weekend she peed her bed, he reasoning was 'because I didn't want to get out of bed because I don't have to at Mommy's'. She was punished for this (no spanking). She lost her bedtime story and movie the following night, and was put to bed half hour earlier.
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Originally posted by Mess View PostSpanking is a fun game played by consenting adults. Let's leave the children out of it.
Rioe,
could not agree more. Though it can be used for spanking because there are always ways around the law. My parents stopped spanking when we were old enough to be able to communicate and understand. They were not big into it but at times we were spanked, 3 boys growing up together trust me at times we needed it lol.
I think that section you described is for those scenerios exactly, unfortunatly people do not use it for that, what can you do though.
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Originally posted by fireweb13 View PostMom is doing the same, well her reasoning is that she does not want to clean all the sheets as our daughter is a very deep sleeper. Mom does not also realise that you need to make a child stop drinking a bit before bed and go to the washroom as part of the getting ready for bed routine, like brushing teeth etc. She put her in pull ups and did not inform us, during the summer we cleared that up as well. Now we are off the week about schedule its back unfortunatly. One day at a time right.
How do you get around this? Mom doesn't seem to care, but at 4, they should not be having accidents every night. She was potty trained at 2.5 years, the occasional accident is bound to happen, but when Mom encourages the behavior it makes it hard. Worst part is, bf point blank asked Mom if D4 wore pull ups and had accidents and Mom said no... however both D4 and S7 have confirmed that yes she does. Why Mom lies about it? I don't know... I know we can only take what the children say with a grain of salt, but believe me... S7 is VERY quick to point out if someone is lying. Not that they know Mom is lying to us, but it just seems weird.
The children do not get a drink after 7pm... they are usually in bed by 7:30-8pm... they must go to the bathroom before bedtime. It is routine in our house, but not so much in Mom's.
Before anyone thinks I am blaming Mom for bad parenting, I know she has long days, the children are up at 5am to be at a sitting by 6am so she can make it to work. She picks the kids up at 5:30pm, makes dinner and by the time they are done dinner and bathed and what not it is bed time. It is possible that she just can't limit their fluid intake before bed, as every child needs a drink when they are eating and because dinner is so close to bedtime, it may not be helped.
Fireweb...one thing we have stated with D4, is that we have set her an alarm... it is unfortunate, but it seems that if she is woken up at 1-2am, she goes straight to the bathroom and pees and heads back to bed. She is also responsible for washing her own sheets...with help of course. Accidents are accidents, but children need to learn from them, and as parents we need to learn how to help them.
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Berner,
A few thoughts. I am writing this as if you are a EOW family as I am not sure your arrangement. In my opinion parenting as an EOW parent and a full time parent are two different things, I know others may argue this but from what I have known when you have a high conflict ex you need your child to have a safe haven. It appears that the EX in your case does not really even parent as the children are in daycare all the time.
It is not uncommon for a 4 year old to wet the bed, even if its every night I would not worry that much about it. You can get these sheets from Wal Mart that protect the mattress but do not feel like plastic. Been using them for years with our daughter.
The alarm idea is great, we wake her up around 5 AM, she goes to the washroom and goes right back to bed. While we don't like it either it works.
If you know that the ex is using Pull Ups, I would not even bother asking her about it. It falls under the " what happens at their house is not under your control". It might be worthwhile to put her in pull ups at your place and save a headache. I think still waking her up is a good idea, but try extending it to 3 AM and continue to 4 and keep working your way forward. Try and find out when she actually wets herself at night. I found our daughter was waking up and wetting herself because she was not allowed to get out of bed at Moms house until someone came and got her. So she would wake up, have to pee badly and just go as she was not allowed out of bed. My ex is not very good at communicating with our daughter to find out whats wrong, they just go for the punishment mentality instead of working with her to correct things like that.
With the pull ups, some fights are just not worth it. Its going to stress out the kids and knowing that Mom is lying is not good for them. It puts them in the middle, and while extremly frustrating sometimes its best just to make your place a safehaven for them. Still provide them structure and rules but make them know its home, and make sure they know that you will not judge mom "in front of them lol" and thats it.
Its almost impossible to co parent when the ex does not want to communicate and when they lie about things, like pull ups and whatnot, I have been through it for a long time and it has not gotten better. The week about time in the summer was amazing, made alot of steps forward on progress and hitting age developement markers that she was very behind on.
Maybe work on expanding access a little bit? Not sure what you have but its worth a try.
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Bf has EOW as well, however, we usually have them 3 of the 4 weekends a month, as her new bf has a child as well (but on opposite weekends) so they like their weekends alone.
We went with the 1-2am, as this is when she wets the bed... last night I was up with her at 1:30am. She was in bed by 8pm, so 5.5 hours. Pull ups are great for the occasional accident, but we are not about to use them as a means for her to not have to get out of bed. There has to be a time where she gets up on her own and that doesn't mean waking up and messing her pull up.
In the summer we had the kids for 2 weeks in July & 2 weeks in August. I believe they have agreed to do the week about thing next summer, as it seems to be easier on the children that way. We had maybe 1-2 accidents during the summer months and some of these were during the day when she got "busy" playing an exciting game.
Unfortunately, due to our distance (2.5-3 hours) it is hard to expand access more than we have. We were hopeful to move closer to the children, and we did, but not close enough to have that type of access. I was not in the position to leave the job I had and bf landed a great job that is paying well, which benefits the children as well.
She is a good mother, the children love her dearly. Sure she has her bad times, but so does everyone else. Everyone has different parenting styles and unfortunately some of those parenting styles come from being lazy.
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Bed wetting
Bernerfaith:
Have you considered getting the child one of those dolls that pee? You could have a conversation with your daughter about how the doll (name given by the child) is now all grown up and that she (the child) has to try and encourage her to go to the bathroom when she needs to pee (including during the night). She could take the doll to pee each time she goes to the bathroom. Instead of the focus being on the child, it is on the doll.
Another suggestion is to either do a check mark or put a sticker book in the bathroom, whereby every morning (the bed is not wet) the kid gets a sticker/star to put against her name? The kid gets so many stickers and earns herself a trip to the dollar store. This way you are responding with positive reinforcement.
This might be far more effective then getting the kid to understand consequences by making the 4 year old wash her own sheets (with help).Last edited by Nadia; 10-27-2012, 04:36 PM.
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