A new low for my ex?

[Nadia]

I believe my ex may have just hit a new low today.

I received a call from our seven year old asking me whether 'daddy could have the passports." As far as I am concerned this is no different to me asking the kids to call up their father "asking him to please give us child support."

A couple of days ago he called me and requested the passports. I told him that wouldn't be a problem as long as he provided me with information about where the children were going, for how long or where they might be staying. He disagreed and contrary to our court order claimed he did not need to share that information.

Upset about the call today, I called him and left him a message saying it was below the belt to use our daughter like this but I was happy to provide the passports if he gave me the information regarding where they would be staying. He called back and left a voice mail to the following:

"I did not put her up to it. We were talking about what we were going to be doing over the next few weeks and I told the kids what I would like to do with them if I had the passports and what I can't do with them because I don't have the passports...I don't need to give you any information....

I can't possibly imagine having a conversation with the children about what I could buy for them if only daddy would pay child support. But because Daddy won't pay child support, we can not do a, b or c."

Children should not be drawn in the middle of conflict like this. Its disgraceful.

[blinkandimgone]

Yeah, that's typically the way my ex deals with a lot of things as well - through the kids. I hate the requests through the kids and ALWAYS let them know that dad is welcome to call and speak to me if he needs something. I don't say yes or no, just leave it at that.

Grrrr.

[HammerDad]

his explanation sounds reasonable and it really none of your business if he discuses holiday plans with the kids.

Discussing holiday plans, maybe none of her business. But if he is planning on leaving the country with the children, she is entitled to receive a detailed itinerary, which (according to the OP) he has refused to provide.

So, if what the OP says is at least 1/2 true and he hasn't given the itinerary (and in most cases you have to give them at least the benefit of the doubt) than fault lies with him for being a moron and creating the problem and not just giving her the information as he supposed to.

[Tayken]

i never said nothing about leaving the country or passports ect.....its none of her business if he discuses vacation planes with the kids.

He makes it "her business" when he has the child call up the other parent and ask for the passports. What child of that age even knows what a passport is?

What do you think a custody and access evaluator would say about that or a judge? Your wisdom on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[standing on the sidelines]

his explanation sounds reasonable and it really none of your business if he discuses holiday plans with the kids.

she wrote that he has to provide the information according to a court order. If he needs the passports then he is taking them out of the country.

[standing on the sidelines]

i gave the opinion it was none of her business how he deals with their children as it is none of his business how she deals with them.


if the travel plans are required for him to travel and he doesn't provide the details don't provide the passports but quit whining about how he deals with the kids on his time.

so in your opinion its prefectly alright to involve kids in things that the adults should be handling???

[Mess]

When we were married and now that we are divorced, my ex and I handle things the same way: We don't get the kids hyped up about something until we've confirmed with each other that it will actually happen.

Because if it can't then the other parent looks like the bad guy. We both understand that.

[standing on the sidelines]

Travel plans are not just adult maters and I do agree with talking to them about it. I am sure you would if you were still married

but getting the kids to ask for the passports because he doesnt want to provide the information he is required to is involving the kids in an adult matter. Talking to the kids is one thing, he isnt just talking though.

[arabian]

Nadia I can totally understand how upset you are. Your ex should have called you and requested the passports. There are many people who read this forum who are experts in using their children in manipulating things. I agree with you that it's pretty disgusting. At least you have the "ovums" to call your ex on his mistake and hopefully it won't happen again. If you email each other I'd send a pleasant but brief email to the effect that further to your telephone conversation of today, you want to verify that he understands that any travel plans for the children have to be discussed only with you etc. or whatever you want to say. I'd start trying to document things that way.

Yes he's an ahole and you are totally entitled to your feelings.

[Nadia]

Slughead, I think you are missing the point.

The child has been informed by Dad (according to his voice message) that if he had the passports he would take them to ...... but they can't go because he does not have the passports.

What the child does not know is that Dad is refusing to provide mommy with some indication of where he is taking the children, (name of country), an address of where they might be staying, flight itinery and a contact number before Mommy can hand over the passports. This is a clause that was included in the court order by dad, he just doesn't think it applies to him.

Seen from the perspective of a child:

1. Dad told us he wanted to take us to A, B and C
2. But he said he can't because mommy won't give him the passports
3. So we can't go
4. It is all mom's fault.

So, it is a problem. Involving the children directly in the conflict is not a mature way to act.

The child in question is 7 years old. She has no idea what has transpired between mom and dad and what the court order stipulates.

[blinkandimgone]

And dad should never tell or imply to the kids that mom's a bad guy and is ruining their plans. Dad SHOULD comply with the court order and things would go smoothly and he would have nothing to whine to the kids about. Dad is clearly conflict seeking and not above involving the kids to further his agenda.

[dinkyface]

... as long as he provided me with information about where the children were going, for how long or where they might be staying. He disagreed and contrary to our court order claimed he did not need to share that information..

This is a bit beside the point ... but doesn't he realise that he needs a consent letter from you with exactly this information on it? Is he planning to travelling without this letter? has he asked for it?

Otherwise ... I agree he is a jerk for telling the kids that "we would do <fun stuff> if only mommy would give me your passports, but she won't"

[Nadia]

No, he doesn't need a consent letter from me.

Our court order specifically stipulates that a consent travel letter is not needed from either parent, but the party does need to provide the other parent with information where they are traveling with the children, for how long, flight itinery (if applicable); an address of where they will be staying for that time and a contact number.

[standing on the sidelines]

So why not up the passport. Your order doesn't state when he is to provide the info he may wait till the last minute. Do you actually believe he won't bring them back


If not let them go and address the mater in court and you won't look like mean mom

when she gets the info then she will give him the passport. She is following the court order, he isnt. If she has to wait till the last minute for the information then he can wait til the last minute for the passport. He needs to play by the rules, especially ones that he wanted put into the agreement.

[standing on the sidelines]

does the order state she is to withhold the passports? she is being as stuborn as him in my opinion give him the passports let him breach the court order then address it in court.

all he has to do is provide the information he is suppose to, she would give him the passports no problem if he would give the information. Why should she have to take him to court later?? I am sure she has better things to do with her time, plus the clause he wanted put in the court order covers this situation.