Parental Alienation?

[Mr.Forever]

Hello Everyone,

My wife and I are currently separating. So far things are going very well. We have reached one sour point in our separation and that has to do with our Nanny.

Our Nanny currently comes to our shared house and watches the kids (ages 4 & 1) while we are away at work. We have sold our house and are now moving into separate townhomes. Our plan was to have her come to both houses based on our parental schedule. That's until she told us today that she wouldn't do that and instead preferred to work out of one house only. Our Nanny seems to be leaning towards my wife's house, which is a few blocks closer to her own house. She does not want to work out of my house, events though I’m only a few blocks further away!

Although we are sharing custody of the kids 50/50, our kids will be in her house almost 80% of the week. I'm not comfortable with this! I feel that the kids will view her house as their main place, and I will be nothing more than a visitor. Not only will the kids be at my wifes all the time, I will have to pick them up each day at her house.

To add to this, the nanny is expensive, about $20/day more than a typical daycare, and has unreasonable hours. Only 8:00 to 4:00. The hours mean my wife or I will have to rush home to relieve her right after work. I don't feel comfortable going into my wife's house like this.

I have given my wife a list of excellent alternate daycares at a much cheaper price, but my wife is thinking of taking the Nanny up on her offer and using her house exclusively.

Here are my questions:

Can she do this, without my agreement? Is this a fair arrangement? Is this a form of parental alienation? Can I fight this legally?

[May_May]

I don't have any experience on this, however another concern could very well be that if your children are at your ex'es house all day (even for daycare), can this also go against you as far as 50/'50 goes. So it would appear that you get 20% now, and she gets 80%. Just another question to ask.

[Mr.Forever]

Thanks for the quick response May_May. I'm already feeling a bit better about this. I will have to ask my lawyer for more information on this. But before I do, does anyone else have experience with my issue? Can my wife decide, without my permission, that she is keeping our nanny and will be keeping the kids in her house during the day? Can I dispute this?

[standing on the sidelines]

maybe suggest finding another nanny who wil be willing to go to both houses??

[Rioe]

I would definitely find a nanny who is not favouring one parent over the other. Or put your kids in the daycare of your choice on your days, and let your ex worry about her own arrangements.

It's not parental alienation though.

[CanaryMom]

None of the info you've been given here is of use to you. Talk to your lawyer and get real advice. These people are essentially telling you nothing. TRUST ME! They are forum trollers who have nothing better to do but give ridiculous advice and are uneducated, foul mouthed. GO SEE A LAWYER!!!

[Mr.Forever]

Thanks CanaryMom,

I will go see my Lawyer, I will call tomorrow morning. But first I think it is my best interested to try and work this out with my wife. We are trying to remain fair and amicable. She does sound like she is willing to consider alternate arrangements for daycare, I just wonder why she thinks she holds the cards in this decision.

We are also debating hiring a mediator. I wonder if they can assist us?

Any more advice on this? I'm quite worried about this.

[billm]

No, your ex cannot dictate how your children are cared for on your time.

She is not listening to your concerns - she is going with the nanny and against you. Your ex should be with you on this. Perhaps she is encouraging the nanny.

I agree with your feeling regarding one house being favoured over the other. Also, it may jeopardize your 50/50 status (though not reasonably, but best not to take the risk).

You are paying for the nanny - if she does not do what you want, get another one, perhaps just on your time, or do the daycare. Also, does the nanny do any house work? That would suck to pay for her to clean your ex's house.

You and your ex need to agree on how to care for the kids when neither of you can. However if you can't, you'll have to come up with a solution that works for you on your time - get a part time nanny, or do the daycare thing.

You are in charge of who takes care of the kids during your 50% time, but hopefully you can be a team with your ex and come to a decision you are both happy about.

[blinkandimgone]

I would definitely find a nanny who is not favouring one parent over the other. Or put your kids in the daycare of your choice on your days, and let your ex worry about her own arrangements.

It's not parental alienation though.

This ^^.

None of the info you've been given here is of use to you. Talk to your lawyer and get real advice. These people are essentially telling you nothing. TRUST ME! They are forum trollers who have nothing better to do but give ridiculous advice and are uneducated, foul mouthed. GO SEE A LAWYER!!!

And ignore this^^. It's angry, bitter, spiteful and bizarre.

[CanaryMom]

Mr. Forever, while I appreciate that your emotional state right now might lead you to feel that Parental Alienation is happening, just remember that emotions are high at this time and sometimes your perceptions can be skewed. At the same time, i know that PA does exist and it can be a HUGE problem for fathers in particular. Try with all that you have in you to be amicable, and communicate in an open and low conflict way. If you can't make it work with your ex, just remember that she doesn't hold all of the cards; you are an equal parent and she doesn't get to make the rules unilaterally. You need to be assertive without being aggressive. This is difficult when emotions are so high.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself and your kids is to keep in mind at all times that you have just as much say as your ex does and you should be included in all decisions that are made, just as you should include her in all your decisions. Once you've mastered this with your ex, so much will fall into place.

Get a lawyer, yes, but also avoid legal issues simply by being the bigger person, but also keeping the kids best intersts first and foremost.

[Tayken]

Our Nanny currently comes to our shared house and watches the kids (ages 4 & 1) while we are away at work. We have sold our house and are now moving into separate townhomes. Our plan was to have her come to both houses based on our parental schedule. That's until she told us today that she wouldn't do that and instead preferred to work out of one house only. Our Nanny seems to be leaning towards my wife's house, which is a few blocks closer to her own house. She does not want to work out of my house, events though I’m only a few blocks further away!

The children should then attend a neutral daycare that is close to both parental residences. It would be nice to continue with the nanny but, if she is unwilling to do this then the best option is a daycare.

A real daycare that is LICENSED and REGISTERED. Don't go with an unlicensed home daycare.

The other option is for the children to be cared for at the nanny's residence and neither parent's home.

Although we are sharing custody of the kids 50/50, our kids will be in her house almost 80% of the week. I'm not comfortable with this! I feel that the kids will view her house as their main place, and I will be nothing more than a visitor. Not only will the kids be at my wifes all the time, I will have to pick them up each day at her house.

Then the nanny's house or a real daycare.

To add to this, the nanny is expensive, about $20/day more than a typical daycare, and has unreasonable hours. Only 8:00 to 4:00. The hours mean my wife or I will have to rush home to relieve her right after work. I don't feel comfortable going into my wife's house like this.

Daycare is the option the courts and professionals prefer over a nanny.

I have given my wife a list of excellent alternate daycares at a much cheaper price, but my wife is thinking of taking the Nanny up on her offer and using her house exclusively.

Daycare. Daycare. Daycare.

Neutral third party and location.

Can she do this, without my agreement? Is this a fair arrangement? Is this a form of parental alienation? Can I fight this legally?

No it is not a form of parental alienation. Yes you can fight it legally and there is a pile of case law based on custody and access evaluations in support of a neutral daycare over a nanny.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Mr.Forever]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I believe I will sleep better tonight!

So from what I can gather, the following seems to be true in my case:

1) My Ex can't dictate which method of care I choose for my children on my day
2) I don't have to pay her if she chooses to keep our old Nanny.
3) I do have to consider what is best for my girls, but also what is fair for me (and her).
4) I should talk to my lawyer right away, but only if we are unable to resolve this amicably.

I have to admit, the idea of putting my girls in a different daycare on my days concerns me. I do want what is best for my girls, but I also have to take care of my needs as well.

Thanks again everyone for your advice. I greatly appreciate it.

[Mr.Forever]

I just saw Tayken's post now. So to add to my list further

5) The courts will typically favour daycare over a nanny scenario
6) I should promote daycare, as it is neutral and an even playing ground for both parents.

Awesome advice! Thanks!!!

[Tayken]

So from what I can gather, the following seems to be true in my case:

1) My Ex can't dictate which method of care I choose for my children on my day

Nope unless an agreement or order of the court specifically states this.

2) I don't have to pay her if she chooses to keep our old Nanny.

Nope unless an agreement or order of the court specifically states this.

3) I do have to consider what is best for my girls, but also what is fair for me (and her).

More than anything your children's "best interests". The court doesn't care about you or the other parent generally. It is all about the children's "best interests".

4) I should talk to my lawyer right away, but only if we are unable to resolve this amicably.

Talking to your solicitor is always a good idea.

I have to admit, the idea of putting my girls in a different daycare on my days concerns me. I do want what is best for my girls, but I also have to take care of my needs as well.

Well, it is well in your children's best interests that they attend a daycare that is a neutral non-party... Daycare being the best option.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

I just saw Tayken's post now. So to add to my list further

5) The courts will typically favour daycare over a nanny scenario

Neutral third party that can meet the needs and serve your children's "best interests". A daycare is the best option.

6) I should promote daycare, as it is neutral and an even playing ground for both parents.

The actual concept revolves around "psychological neutrality". A daycare at a neutral location would allow for your children to be cared for in a "psychologically neutral" place rather than one parent's home.

Don't waste money on a Section 30 or OCL report just to learn this basic concept if your solicitor recommends it. They always come out the same way on 50-50 stuff... Daycare.

Good Luck!
Tayken