New here and completely stressed

[peaceseeker]

Hi everyone. I need some input because my brain is turning to mush. I'll try to make this as short as possible and hope that someone can help me.

I've been married for 37 years. I have 2 grown daughters - one married and gone. The other lives with us (she's in her 20s and recently lost her job). She is also my lifeline right now. With her in the house, he tends to be better behaved. I believe he is manic-depressive but he refuses to see a doctor.

I have been unhappy for a very long time. We have slept in separate bedrooms for the last 7 years. He is a negative, critical, nasty tempered person and I can't handle it anymore.

I am not a saint. I know that. But I've raised the girls with no emotional support from him (and very little financial). I've always worked full time. I've also put a huge dent in our credit cards over the years, for various expenses that were necessary. My husband would kill me if he knew. But our house is paid for (we paid off the mortgage) and I always make all the other payments on time. The house is in both our names (otherwise I would of paid off my debts with a second mortgage).

In a couple of months, he plans on retiring. Because of this, he keeps getting calls from a financial advisor that I keep intercepting (he never answers the phone). I know he has RRSPs at that bank. And once this person brings up his (i.e. my) debt, I don't know what'll happen. I can't sleep anymore.

I truly believe the emotional abuse and stress has taken a toll and I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

I love this house. We've lived here for 25 years. I don't want to leave. I live in Quebec. What happens when the house has no mortgage but it's joint ownership? I can't afford rent, with everything else I'm paying. I don't want anything from him except peace and to stay in my house.

I don't know what to do.

[dinkyface]

You will split all of your assets: house (using current market value), RRSPs/Savings, Pensions (including QPP), AND all of your debts.

There are a few assets that can be excluded from this split - e.g. inheritances that were not co-mingled with your joint assets.

If you want to stay in the house, then you will have to pay him half of the value. If your half of the other assets - debt is not enough then you will have to take on a mortgage. Take a hard look at whether you will be able to qualify for a mortgage to fill that gap, and whether you will be able to single-handedly manage all of the expenses of home ownership. Presumably your adult daughter will share these expenses. I'd doubt that you will be in any position to support her.

I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but you get the gist.

It's best to have realistic expectations going into this.

[Lorac]

I've been married for 34 years. If you make more money then he does be careful he doesn't go after you for Spousal Support.

[Rioe]

You need counselling! Your stress is through the roof, from the sounds of it. Get some emotional support, and maybe financial advice while you are at it. Get a plan in place to keep yourself safe (if the "will kill me" part isn't complete exaggeration) because he's going to find out about your debt eventually. Once you are feeling less scared and more rational, you can figure out what you want to do and research your options.

[standing on the sidelines]

you must have known that eventually he would find out. As for the calls from his financial advisor, have you told your husband that the person has been trying to contact him?? If not you are just making it worse as he WILL find out.
It doesnt matter if the debt was justified or as far as we know it could be gambling debts or whatever, you did it behind his back. You need to get sorted out fast. Make a list of the debts and give it to him when your daughter is in the house. He will find out and its better that it isnt a complete surprise like when he finally talks to his financial person. I have a feeling looking like an idiot in front of a person who knows more about the familys finances then he does will not make him happy.

Good luck

[Mess]

I don't want to be harsh, but he was cold and distant for years and you stayed in the marriage.

You are contemplating leaving now because he is possibly about to find out about your credit card use.

You are reacting out of guilt and shame. I mean that in an emotional sense, I am not accusing you of being guilty of anything.

You are panicking and thinking of divorce for the wrong reasons, although it is true that if there have been other simmering conflicts, this could be the catalyst that drives the split.

There is no way to resolve conflicts when you put them all in a bag, shake it up and then swing it at the other person. The way to resolve conflict is to separate them, put them on the table one at time, and then focus on the conflict issue that is on the table, not focus on the other person and their failings. That goes for your approach to him and it goes for his approach to you.

If you let conflict take over, you will both be going through divorce in a highly toxic way and it will end up costing more and more due to antagonism and aggression. Again, this will apply to both of you.

You need to step back and deal with this credit issue separately from anything else.

A side issue, but still related, if your husband is manic depressive (bi-polar) then he is ill and can be treated. This is better handled with compassion than with divorce, although I understand you may by now feel it is beyond your ability.

[wretchedotis]

Hi everyone. I need some input because my brain is turning to mush.

Mmmm... Brain mush.

I'm gonna go watch Dawn of the Dead now.

[BeenThereTwice]

Just how much IS your credit card debt that you are so worried about? And how does it compare with the income your earn by yourself. And lastly (and be 100% HONEST) just what was all the credit card debt used for.

[Tayken]

I've been married for 37 years. I have 2 grown daughters - one married and gone. The other lives with us (she's in her 20s and recently lost her job). She is also my lifeline right now. With her in the house, he tends to be better behaved. I believe he is manic-depressive but he refuses to see a doctor.

Be very careful how you lean on your daughter for support. I would not recommend you attempt to use either of your children for emotional support through this. I highly recommend you seek out a therapist to work out your issues. Even as an adult your emotional state can parentify a child.

Your "life line" is not your therapist and is not equipped (nor should she be) to handle or even help you with your emotional state.

I have been unhappy for a very long time. We have slept in separate bedrooms for the last 7 years. He is a negative, critical, nasty tempered person and I can't handle it anymore.

Despite your name "peaceseeker" you sure do have a negative opinion of your spouse. Just pointing this out. I can't comment beyond this because you haven't disclosed the "what" is driving these comments.

I am not a saint. I know that. But I've raised the girls with no emotional support from him (and very little financial).

Well, your children are adults, employed and the major task of parenting is now mostly over. My best advice is not to try and use your separation to seek "rights" for past "wrongs". It is best to work this out with a therapist rather than try to resolve it through the family courts and lawyers.

I've always worked full time. I've also put a huge dent in our credit cards over the years, for various expenses that were necessary. My husband would kill me if he knew.

Debt incurred during the marriage is split equally unless these sources of debt were in your name and never used by your husband. It can get messy but, generally it is split 50-50.

But our house is paid for (we paid off the mortgage) and I always make all the other payments on time. The house is in both our names (otherwise I would of paid off my debts with a second mortgage).

"Your debts." Based on this comment they may in fact be your debts and not split 50-50. You can always make an offer to purchase the matrimonial home.

In a couple of months, he plans on retiring. Because of this, he keeps getting calls from a financial advisor that I keep intercepting (he never answers the phone). I know he has RRSPs at that bank. And once this person brings up his (i.e. my) debt, I don't know what'll happen. I can't sleep anymore.

1. If they are indeed your debts then "that person" cannot disclose them to your husband. It would be a violation of the privacy act that they are bound to as a professional.

2. If you are worried you can remind them of this.

3. You will eventually have to put these debts into a Form 13 (Financial Statement) so they will eventually get exposed.

4. If they are your debts why would your husband get upset? They are your debts. From the sounds of it... He isn't responsible for them. Unless you are expecting him to pay for what you are calling your debts?

I truly believe the emotional abuse and stress has taken a toll and I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

1. There are 30 criteria for the determination of "emotional abuse". Be very careful how you use this term.

2. How *you* feel does not define emotional abuse. You may in fact be emotionally abusing yourself with worries, which you have explicitly expressed in this statement. Worries are often based on "fears" also known as "anxieties".

3. If you feel like you are on the verge of a nervous breakdown you may be experiencing an adjustment disorder. This is a big change in your life.

4. Seek help. Don't break down please. There are lots of therapists who can help you. You are employed, your employer may have services to help you. You can talk to your Family Practitioner and get help for your emotional state.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[blinkandimgone]

Tayken....can you elaborate more on this...

Debt incurred during the marriage is split equally unless these sources of debt were in your name and never used by your husband. It can get messy but, generally it is split 50-50.

Some hypothetical examples, perhaps?

[Tayken]

Tayken....can you elaborate more on this...



Some hypothetical examples, perhaps?

Credit card debt. If the card has been held in the person's name, is paid out of a non-shared bank account and the other party has never had access to the account it can end up being their debt. It all depends on how the family historically handled "family money". If there is a pattern which demonstrates that the credit card was the property of one spouse and it was only used by that spouse etc... It has been argued to be that spouses debt.

Also, it happens a lot when one spouse plans to leave the other spouse and then does a cash withdraw off a credit card two days before retaining a solicitor using the money to pay for that solicitor. 9 times out of 10 the person who created the debt on the shared account will be responsible for the debt.

Some people think it is smart to run up the credit card, buy new clothing, setup a new life prior to separating. Really not a good idea to pull this stunt on a shared credit card as it is easy to spot and well, financial records are easy to get. (and on shared accounts SIMPLE!)

It generally doesn't come up for personal accounts but, when businesses are involved it comes up a lot.

For example a "momprenure" trying to push her small business loan debt as a "family debt" where the title of the company is soul proprietorship. Any debt accrued on the "company" credit card would be the responsibility of the company and the person who owns the company. Lots of this happens in litigation. Divorce + small business = litigation nightmare at times.

Generally when this happens a forensic accountant gets involved to sort it all out. But, you really only see this on debts on Amex cards that are over 30K or other large account platinum cards. Usually people don't go to court over a 5000$ credit card debt. They just logically split the debt. Unless the account balance went from 0 to 5000$ two days before they got a letter from the other party's solicitor.

Vehicles is another grey area for debt. Lots of vehicles are purchased as soul ownership (only one name on ownership). In equalization the debt is the responsibility of the person who holds the title and loan generally.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

Tayken....can you elaborate more on this...



Some hypothetical examples, perhaps?

Oh, and in affidavit material be very careful how you use "my" and "our". If you swear in a paragraph something about "my credit card" you may have to either strike your statement, admit to an error, or end up paying for "your" credit card debt.

Cross examination on financials can be a nightmare if a litigation oriented barrister is involved. Every little mistake you made and typo in your affidavit will be used against you. "My car", "My credit card", anything "possessive" over what is a shared asset, even if in both names, especially if it is a negative asset, will be presented in fact as "your" property and "your" debt.

xx. I used my credit card to purchase new clothing for my new job on Date, XX, XXXX..

vs.

xx. I used our credit card to purchase new clothing for my new job on Date, XX, XXXX.

If you spent 3500$ on this and a week later you are separated. Don't think that you got your new cloths for half price. You more than likely will be eating the full cost of your shopping adventure.

Also, never reveal to anyone your plan to leave someone. Never email it to a friend, future boyfriend, or even say it to anyone. If you are planning to leave someone in a month or two (or even in a year) keep it to yourself. You never know where this can pop up in litigation. You may think it is cool to email your friend saying you had planned to leave the other party for a while now... But, if that friend provides the email to the other party and it shows up in the continuing record... You may have a lot to answer for on your behaviour prior to separation and your spending habits.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[frustratedwithex]

If you spent 3500$ on this and a week later you are separated. Don't think that you got your new cloths for half price. You more than likely will be eating the full cost of your shopping adventure.

Also, never reveal to anyone your plan to leave someone. Never email it to a friend, future boyfriend, or even say it to anyone. If you are planning to leave someone in a month or two (or even in a year) keep it to yourself. You never know where this can pop up in litigation. You may think it is cool to email your friend saying you had planned to leave the other party for a while now... But, if that friend provides the email to the other party and it shows up in the continuing record... You may have a lot to answer for on your behaviour prior to separation and your spending habits.

Good Luck!
Tayken

If the stbx purchased a vehicle about 2 months before separation and used a personal line of credit for the purchase (not joint), he is responsible for that debt? Stbx cannot claim in his financial statement that he paid off this particular family debt? I don't know for certain, here say at this point, but stbx had a conversation with someone prior to this purchase about his decision to separate.

[blinkandimgone]

Thank you Tayken, I may PM you more about this later, if you don't mind?