Where to go for help?

[Betsy]

Hello I just joined the forum
I do want a divorce, I am still in love with my husband and will do anything to fix this but he is increasingly distancing himself from me. He still lives in the house but will not touch me or spend time with me. We have tried a few therapists but he is losing hope. The problem is I have always been a stay at home mother and he doesn't want that anymore, he wants to be married to someone who does not put the family first and who 'lives hard and plays hard'. That is just not me! I am completely distraught, and heart broken and I cry all the time. I am looking for work but it is difficult at my age and lack of experience. I am a cancer survivor and my energy levels are not the greatest. This experience is trashing my self confidence as he is always criticising who I am but he won't move out. He moved out for a month but came back as he missed the kids and house. I am scared of losing him.

Does it matter who leaves the house?

I worry he will eventually want to separate and divorce and I don't have a clue as to what I should be doing to prepare (beyond looking for work). He has said he does not want me to get a lawyer. I think I will need one. Any suggestions of at what point should I find one ? Or where to start?

I have three children, two of whom are still at home. He has said if we divorce he will pay alimony for three years only....is that reasonable?!

I need to live in my daughter's school zone, can he force me to sell the house and move out of that zone? If I move in with my parents will that diminish child/spousal support? Where can I go for help?

Does anyone have an amazing marriage counsellor who can help? I just can't believe this is happening. We had a loving wonderful marriage and it all just changed overnight six months ago...

[NBDad]

How long have you been married? How old are you? How old is your spouse?

How old are the children still at home?

Does it matter who leaves the house?

An oft quoted cardinal rule in family law is NEVER EVER EVER leave the home until you have a court order.

I worry he will eventually want to separate and divorce and I don't have a clue as to what I should be doing to prepare (beyond looking for work). He has said he does not want me to get a lawyer. I think I will need one. Any suggestions of at what point should I find one ? Or where to start?

Definitely get a lawyer, or at least go and see if you can get a free 1/2 hour consult to answer some questions.

Start documenting the financials. Car ownership, RRSPs, Pensions, Joint Accounts, Mortgage/house valuation, life insurance policies, bank accounts, credit cards, safety deposit boxes, pay checks, bonuses, etc. Walk around the home with a video camera some afternoon and document the contents.

"Toys" like RV's, ATV's, Boats, etc should all be documented, as well as things like the age, mileage and approx. value. (search Kijiji or blue books, or buy/sell/trade papers to get a rough idea on the value)

Get ALL that together and get it somewhere else. A friends place, a family member. Open your own safety deposit box and slap it there. DO NOT keep it in the home.

I have three children, two of whom are still at home. He has said if we divorce he will pay alimony for three years only....is that reasonable?!

It depends on how long you have been married, your age, his age, how much he makes, how much you make (or are capable of making) and how much child support would be. (Which also is dependent on the access/custody arrangements) Without knowing that, at least in approx. number, it's hard to give you a straight answer.

I need to live in my daughter's school zone, can he force me to sell the house and move out of that zone? If I move in with my parents will that diminish child/spousal support?

Child support is automatic and the right of the child. Spousal support is dependent on a large number of factors (as I mentioned above). Usually it's prepared via a software suite called "DivorceMate".

The home will be included as part of "equalization", and if you cannot buy him out, or he cannot buy you out, the home is sold and the proceeds split according to equalization. There ARE other arrangements that can be made (a la you stay in the home with the kids until the children are completed post secondary and THEN it's sold) but those require that both sides be amicable and able to do so. It can be financially constraining, and it's not generally a good idea to stay tied together financially...but it HAS been done before. Each situation is unique.

[Betsy]

Thanks so much for responding!

We have been married 12 years, he is 56 and I am 46. The children at home are 10 and 16. He makes about 100K with pension and benefits taken out of that. I have never worked outside the home, I don't have any earnings, I have a B.A. that was never used.

We are amicable. He trusts me fully with the finances, I pay all the bills etc. He just can't seem to love me anymore. I don't know how much longer I can go on like this, I still love him so much and to not have it returned is the most painful life experience to date. I don't want to do anything that might furthur distance him, but some basic information of what the future might hold will help me not feel so lost. He can't answer me if our marriage is over yet or not...

If I kept the house (can't buy him out) how does it get split later on if I pay the mortgage after the divorce? Does it go by the value on the date of separation and then any increase in value is mine ?? Or do we each pay half the mortgage and its equally split? What happens with repair costs etc ?? It does complicated but maybe do-able. If I rented out some rooms would I be able to use that money for my half of the mortgage or would he be entitled to it (as co-owner) as well? Probably questions for a lawyer, I know...my mind is just spinning! sorry!

Thanks for any help and advice!!!!!

[NBDad]

If I kept the house (can't buy him out) how does it get split later on if I pay the mortgage after the divorce? Does it go by the value on the date of separation and then any increase in value is mine ?? Or do we each pay half the mortgage and its equally split? What happens with repair costs etc ?? It does complicated but maybe do-able. If I rented out some rooms would I be able to use that money for my half of the mortgage or would he be entitled to it (as co-owner) as well? Probably questions for a lawyer

THAT depends on what you work out. Definately questions for a lawyer.

Child support is retardedly easy to calculate:

Federal Child Support Amounts: Simplified Tables

@100k/year it equates to 1404 / month for 2 children IF you have them more than 61% of the time.

If he has access > 40% of the time, you would use what's known as the offset method. Basically take what he would pay you and what you would pay him and subtract the smaller from the larger and the person paying the larger amount pays the difference to the other person.

Spousal support is NOT automatic, it must be proven that you are entitled to it. After being a stay at home mother for so many years, you have a fairly strong case for it. You should be working, even if it is JUST minimum wage/full time hours. If you are NOT working, to be fair you should agree to be "imputted" an income. This means that for the sake of calculations you are assumed to be capable of making at least X income. Full time hours at min. wage equivalent if nothing else.

For spousal support, IF you can prove you are entitled to it (typically YOUR Net Disposable income should be within 40-46% of his AFTER child support is paid/received, if it is NOT then spousal is meant to bring you to that point)

Anyway, IF you are proven entitled to it, the generally used formula is 6 months to 1 year of spousal per year of marriage. Anything over 10 years is considered a LONG term marriage so you would probably wind up with closer to 12 years of spousal.

The real kicker is going to be equalization, after 12 years and with him making 100K+ you probably have some decent assets, so you most likely will not be hurting if it comes down to it. Remember that in terms of equalization, things like the increase in value of his pension over the 12 year marriage is an asset.

[Rioe]

We have been married 12 years, he is 56 and I am 46. The children at home are 10 and 16.

And you have a third child old enough to have moved out already? Just doing a little math here, either you were common-law a while before getting married, or some of those children are step-children to one of you.

Either scenario could have a big impact on the advice we give you. If you lived together for a while before getting married, those years could count as part of your relationship and entitle you to longer support. If some of the children are not related to one of you, then child support may be a bit more confusing, depending on the relationships between step-parent and child.

So I think we need more information before we steer you wrong by accident.

But while you should prepare for the worst, don't stop hoping for the best either. Don't jump right to divorce. Keep trying therapists and counsellors till you get the right fit for you both. And don't be inflexible; maybe there's some way you can meet in the middle between being good parents and good partners. Your husband sounds like he would like some adventure in your marriage again, and your youngest child is entering the age where you and your husband can rediscover that. Even if he won't see a counsellor, you can go solo to try to figure yourself out. If you really do still love him, are you willing to look at things from his perspective and try to reach a balance? It sounds like you sort of forgot what having a husband was all about when you had children. Not an uncommon thing!

[Betsy]

I do NOT want a divorce (I married for life) ...sorry I can't find the edit button, now my first post has a glaring mistake !

Can someone explain what the implications are for the spouse that leaves the family home before there is a court order?

[BeenThereTwice]

If you abandon (that's what they call it) your kids behind when you leave the home, it can make joint or sole custody VERY difficult to get.

[Tayken]

I do NOT want a divorce (I married for life) ...sorry I can't find the edit button, now my first post has a glaring mistake !

Can someone explain what the implications are for the spouse that leaves the family home before there is a court order?

I highly recommend you find yourself a therapist as soon as possible. You are struggling with two independent issues. Your emotional relationship (love) and your technical relationship with your husband (finances, child support, etc).

A therapist can help you with the emotional relationship challenges. I would recommend a psychologist who has a strong background in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy.

The emotions you are felling are very normal and healthy. Grieving about the loss of a marriage is not wrong. You are not expected to stand tall and smile through it all. But, I do really recommend you seek out a therapist to help you recognize, name and notice your emotions and how they may be impacting you.

Your mental health (emotional health) is not only important to you but, your children and their needs. Don't be afraid to seek help from a therapist. There are no sitting judges that I can think of that has ever held this against anyone in the court. In fact, Justice Brownstone recommends it in his book Tug of War!

So, as you are gathering the technical details of what separation and divorce really means... Don't forget to seek out what the emotional impact of all this is too. You don't have to go through it alone.

Good Luck!
Tayken