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  • Hello and child support question

    Hi everyone.

    I have a question. About 8 years ago my husband's ex took their child and left. Complete alienation, it was bad. We attempted to go to court but could not afford it and she was nowhere to be found. Now she is back and wants child support. (non court ordered ever)the child is now a teenager..over the years we have found her and tried to begin contact with his child but the ex said the child didn't want to see him. We didn't want to disrupt childs life and so let it be. We also offered to pay child support each time we found ex and the ex said she didn't want it. It has never been court ordered.

    Now she is demanding his last 3 months pay stubs and wants the money deposited in bank account set up for child. He doesn't make salary only hourly wages (16 an hr) and it varies weekly due to many reasons.

    Question one: she keeps threatening back pay? yet everytime we offered in the past she said no

    Question two: what legal grounds does she have if any?

    We said we would go by the table amount and by his monthly earnings, is this suffice? We do want to contribute child support monthly but she is pushing him around.

    Question 3: If she brings him to court, does it cost alot? anything? does she pay for his court costs too?

    and finally what will the judge want for proof of income? he just started this job in sept and was self employed before then..


  • #2
    I hate to say this, but there are certain things he missed doing that he should have. He should have filed a missing persons report with the police and/or a child abduction report. Over the years when you found her he should have obtained court ordered access then. If he couldn't afford a lawyer, it would at least been better to have tried to self-represent and lose (and it would have been pretty hard to lose access completely in these circumstances). If she ran again, then she would be running from the law as well as your husband. Meanwhile he should have been covering his ass in terms of child support by opening a bank account and depositing support money each month for the day if and when he had to pay it.

    Support is not tied to access/visitation; it is the right of the child, not the mother and if the mother ignores it, runs away or tries to sign it away it doesn't matter, the support is still owed. In extreme cases, like if the child has already grown and left home, a judge wouldn't order support paid, but there is no guarentee that your husband will not have to pay the entire amount owing. If he couldn't afford a lawyer then, he'd better be able to afford one now.

    If this job is a permanent hire and he is through the probabionary period, just use three months of paystubs and offer support based on that average. Then have the amount corrected each year according to the income tax assessment. If it's not a permanent job, get ready to argue and argue. In terms of past years, if she is going after retroactive amounts, you need a lawyer, no kidding.


    • #3
      There was never a court order for custody or child support, the judge should not order back pay. I have looked it up.

      She has no legal grounds to his pay stubs correct? we can figure this out on our own and then offer said amount. We came up with an average and she doesn't like it and wants his pay stubs so she can figure out the amount.


      • #4
        She is entitled to receive financial information, generally one would be obligated to provide copies of line 150 of their tax returns for the previous three years to determine average income (where income fluctuates).

        She does have a right to request proof of income. She does not have a right to deny Dad his parenting time.

        [tough love time]

        Dad needs to get off his duff and ask his for his nutsack back. As Mess said, dad has allowed this situation to perpetuate to the point where he will be lucky to ever have a relationship with his child, notwithstanding whether or not he is paying child support.

        The first time she disappeared and he wasn't able to exercise his parenting time, he should have been in the family law courthouse speaking with the FREE resources they have there and looking to file an emergency motion for access and failing that, custody. Because Dad didn't, and has seeming allowed his ex to bend him over at will instead of fighting back to maintain his relationship with his child, Dad is now reaping the rewards of him allowing his ex to alienate his child against him.

        If I was dad, I would now be using this new contact to establish a parenting time schedule, the ability to obtain information on the child from the schools, establishing child support etc. I would provide the ex with his financial information and state that you will pay the guideline amount in an account, the funds of which will be released to her once a parenting schedule is in place.

        Should the boy not want to spend time with his dad (which may be the case, as he may feel like he abandoned him or whatever else the ex has convinced the child of, when it may be as, given what we've read, dad really didn't seem like he put a whole lotta effort into maintaining his parental rights) you recommend seeking counseling with the child, the ex and Dad to try and re-establish the relationship.

        Request going to mediation to start to work out a parenting agreement, and should she refuse, take her to court. But money shouldn't be the only consideration in this as Dad is entitled to be a Dad, and there are resources at the ready to help minimize the legal costs.


        • #5
          Child support is the right of the child from birth, it does not need a court order to be owed. A judge has discretion if the amount owed is large and would cause undue hardship, or if the child's needs have been met and the amount would just be a transfer of capital from the father to the mother, however this is up to the judge to decide on a case by case basis, you cannot just "look it up".

          You must submit proof of income. If all you have is paystubs then that is what you must submit. Why would you not? If you do not submit any proof how far do you think you will get? You may submit last year's tax return and assessment (for self-employed you will certainly need both to detail expenses) but a judge will certainly want to know the current employment income.

          Don't get caught up in being contrary. Be open and accurate and make a full disclosure. Prepare for the worst, owing retroactivly, and hope for the best. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for disaster and bitterness.


          • #6
            well he was paying suport mess, up until she took off. He has found her via online and she would not provide him with her address for him to forward cheques. She stated "we do not want your money, we're fine" She makes alot of money, way more then us and I am unable to work due to various health conditions and he works a 16 an hour job and supports me and two kids. Back pay would certainly pose undue hardship at this time.

            Do not think I am against paying his child for a second, but I do not agree that when we offered in the past and she wouldn't accept it that now she thinks she can threaten us with it.

            Again with no court order, she has no legal grounds and certainly none to push us around. We are not in the courts with her. Though at this point I think I would rather be, cause this is all very confusing and frustrating. I have a verbal agreement with my ex for 200 a month in child support. It has been like this for 9 years, no problems. If only it could be so easy in this situation. The worst part is having no contact with his child instead of just being treated as a bank.


            • #7
              Taken from a website of an Ontario Law Lawyer.(ottawa

              "How far back can I ask a court for child support?"

              Generally, a court won't order child support back beyond the date that the application for child support is made, unless the other parent has done something blameworthy to delay your claim. So, if you are entitled to child support, it is important that you see a family law lawyer and pursue your claim right away.

              She has known our whereabouts the whole time from mutual friends. We haven't left town and have always been available via listed number address etc..


              • #8
                Thanks hammerdad and I totally agree. This has always been a problem in our relationship. But there is alot more to the story and I do not feel like sharing all that. I know he would love (and always has, but this woman is deeply disturbed and manipulative) to have a relationship with his kid, but because child is now 15, is there a point trying to regain access? Would court ever consider counselling then maybe visitation? If so, I will certainly look into this further. I think we definetly need a lawyer.

                Hammerdad you mentioned something about putting funds into an account and then being released when parenting schedule takes place, is this the norm? wouldn't a court frown upon that or could we make our own account for child? Also the ex said she doesnt want child support but wants him to help pay for upcoming university (child is 15) and so she wants the table amount monthly deposited into an account. So basically the "child support" is going towards education. I know it doesn't make a difference what the money goes towards but this is what she said.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                  Dad needs to get off his duff and ask his for his nutsack back.
                  I'm so glad I stopped in today, that's the second post that had me lol'ing and I definately needed it!


                  • #10
                    ya and I agree. glad we made your day!


                    • #11
                      Your situation is complicated. Dad messed up big time when he allowed her to leave.

                      Just because GENERALLY they won't go back, doesn't mean that it's always that way. She can ask for arrears and she may get them. Your best bet is to settle with her out of court, then pay for an hour of time to have independent legal representation review it.

                      YOU and YOUR KIDS do NOT factor into things UNLESS one of them claim undue hardship. As the father, his chances of pulling that off are virtually NIL. There has to be a SIGNIFICANT difference in the household income and significant is up to the judge's discretion.

                      Start paying her...NOW, at the full table amounts, via documented method. (email money xfer or similar). That way you have an argument if she tries to drag you into court. (ie. the second she popped up and we knew where she was we started paying).

                      You can pawn off the past attempts as her refusing and then up and disappearing again on you before you could do anything about it.

                      In terms of your kids and your agreement with your ex, you should be taking HIS line 150 amounts, plugging them in here:

                      Federal Child Support Amounts: Simplified Tables

                      and figuring out what your ex should be paying. The CS should have been automatically adjusted up or down every year as needed. $200 for 2 kids sounds really low, depending on what your ex makes.

                      If you pursue a hardship claim, expect that his ex will argue that you are not doing everything in your power to provide for YOUR kids, so why should HE have to? Those are the things you have to take into consideration.


                      • #12
                        There is always reason to try and forge a relationship with your kid. Don't think for a minute that boy isn't wondering why his dad abandoned him. Because you know what, from my perspective in the cheap seats, Dad did. He had ample opportunity to go after the appropriate remedies to maintain the relationship and he dropped the ball.

                        No, suggesting the separate account is not normal. But it is a start to showing you are willing to negotiate in good faith, but more importantly, that Dad wants to re-establish the relationship with his son.

                        Also, just so you know, that the "child support" is just that. However you decide to pay it, it is for maintaining the lifestyle of the child. She is under NO obligation to ensure that money goes towards his education. She could use it to go on cruises adn shopping sprees and still hit dad up for his proportionate amount of Section 7 expenses associated with post secondary. Should she choose to use the C/S and put it in a savings account, that is her choice and would generally be used as her contribution towards education.

                        Ultimately the two most important factors here are that 1) dad and son re-establish their relationship and 2) dad pay his support to mom for c/s. From there, you will need an agreement in writing providing that the c/s payments made by Dad are to be deposited into a savings account for the boys post education, and even then I doubt that agreement would be binding. Because as said above, there is no accounting for c/s. And should his post secondary education be more then the amount provided, she can come back for more.


                        • #13
                          ok nb, thanks for your advice. Well the thing is for me I am looking into disability now as I am truly unable to work. Yes the first email she sent us we agreed right away, of course we'll pay and even slipped in "at least it's something for the child" His ex and I know this gets said often is a real manipulative individual who unfortunately can make ones life hell. I just want to make sure we're doing everything right.

                          Now your saying line 150, but our last income tax was for EI only, like hardly an income for that year? now what? Also I'm aware that a new family has nothing to do with first child. I only have one child with my ex and the second one is with now husband. One last thing actually that i forgot, even if I made money, can the court touch my money too?


                          • #14