It's over with

[dadforlife]

Persuinghappiness,

I have a family friend, female, who is going thru a very similar situation so I agree you, it does happen the moms also. But the facts are there for everyone to see. More often than none, just being a dad means you start at a disadvantage. and that is very frustrating and hurtfull.

[dadforlife]

Thank you

Thank you all.

It is exaclty posts like these previouse ones that were invaluble to me. The difference in opinions, attitudes, genuine pain, anger, despaire, successes, failiures and right down to trying to empathise with those who feel the best course of action is revenge, selfishness and personal gratification.

That is in part what helped me trace my course of action. I took it all in perspective and analyse it to the best of my knowledge and applied it to my situation to see what the best possible outcome would be.

If self representing is your last option don,t be intimidated, at lease try not to be, i was at first but it had to be done. The more I got involved in the process the more I got to understand it. And the more I understood it, the more confident I became. Doesn't mean I agreed with it. It does however take up a lot (most) of your time but, if you realy want it.........

I have a very good idea of some of the challenges ahead.

I take it one step at a time.

First, convince the court that i am not the monster that she made me out to be, stand up to the CAS when trying to be convinced that i should give up if I realy love my children, face a court system that is still not getting it or just refuse to get it and bang my head against a wall to prove to them that im a good parent and that i have the right to parent, not just once in a while and that my children have the right to have a father in their lives more than just once in a while.

I have to admit that most Judges were very good and understanding but it would only take one Judge to fall for her emotional game to set everything back to the dark ages.

Next, Try and manage the communication problems that may and will arise in the same maner that I have used to get to were i am now.

It is her behavior towards the situation that will determine her relationship with her children. My behavier so far has won me a good and wide open communication style and trusting relationship with my children. She still stands to lose more if she choses that path.

I also asked the judge for a follow up in 6 months to see how thing are. Just to keep everyone on the strait and narrow. Judge was more than please to put that in the agreement.

I would be kidding myself if I thought I would be were I'm at today if it were not for family, friends and even well wishing suport from posters on this forum.

Ya, I did have a few brews, right after i cam back from fishing with the kids

LIKE YOU SAID 2 1/2 years to get to here, were it should have been..... 2 1/2 years ago.

I've been coming to this site for nealy 2 years almost on a daily basis now, mostly to read what posters are going thru, how they deal with the information the get and if it can apply to me. If my experience can help someone who is in it for the right reasons i.m happy to help if I can

Cheers

[baldclub]

Yaaay Brother!!!

Hey dadforlife, congrats and maybe I will join you next week? : )

Well, I think my story will be also be drawn out longer, but there might be some respite in my situation in court after the lying my ex did to the police recently.

[ambushed]

I completely agree with Gary. My stbx husband is very difficult to deal with in so many aspects, but I have never (and would never) go for anything other than joint custody (as all parents should unless a reason otherwise has been proven). Our children need to see both parents (in my opinion they should be able to see their mother, as much as the father). I rented a house 2 blocks away so our children can go back and forth easily between our houses (not just on swap days)...This is how all marital breakdowns should start (equal !)...

Congratulations to you...What an accomplishment ! Grab a drink and celebrate...

Joint custody has nothing to do with access. You can have joint custody and one parent may only see the child(ren) once a month for a few hours.

Sole and joint custody are about who has the right to decision making. The amount of time spent with each parent can vary and is decided by both parents. Shared custody is the only type of custody where the amount of time the child(ren) must spend with each parent is dictated by the law - min 40% with each.

My issue is with shared custody as it forces the child(ren) to go back and forth between the parents almost equally. It is assumed that this is best for the child(ren) but, IMHO and based on my experience and that of many other divorced parents I know, it is not necessarily the best scenario. We, as adults, decide what is best for our children based on our ideal vision of life but forget what it's like to be a child, especially a teenager (who more often than not could not care less to do things with their parents). IMHO, great relationships with our kids are built on good communication not the amount of time we spend with them.

IMHO, when the parents do not have an amicable relationship, joint custody with primary residence at one home at least 70% of the time, is better for the child(ren). I have no opinion as to if the child(ren) should reside with the mom or the dad, that entirely depends on the situation. IMHO, I also feel that siblings should never be separated until they are teenagers and decide this is what they want. IMHO, the child(ren) need stability and need to feel at home in one place.

From the session our divorce support group held with the teenage children who were in a shared custody situation, all said that it affected their lives negatively. The examples they gave were that they couldn't feel part of their group of friends because they were constantly going back and forth on alternate weekends which interfered with activities or just hanging out. They said that the house rules were so different in each household that they were confused as to what was right or wrong. They felt the tension between their parents on a daily basis and they felt they had to act one way with one parent and another way the other.

This session was an eye opener for me. My daughter had always told me she was happy with the way things were but she has since told me she felt the same as I just detailed but that she had been afraid to hurt my feelings by asking to move to her dad's. I was going through some really difficult times with my health issues and finding a job that would allow me to be financially stable with an employer who would understand my limitations. My ex was aware of this and rather than discussing options with me, he told my daughter she had the right to decide who she wanted to live with. He also told her that mom would not allow her to leave so she should be prepared for a battle. He literally sent her home to me to announce she was leaving the next day. She should never have been put in this situation. This was an adult conversation her dad and I should have had beforehand.

I did feel betrayed that she "chose" him over me but I now know that she wasn't choosing anything more than stability in one home. She had been feeling guilty about leaving me the way she did until we went on vacation a few weeks ago and we finally discussed the situation. She now knows that I am not angry and that it is always better to address issues and be honest about feelings rather than simply walking away and hoping issues will go away (my ex's way of always handling conflict). I am angry with the ex for the way this was handled.

Had I known how shared custody would affect our daughter, I would never had agreed to it. Her dad now lives closer to her high school and she wanted to be close to her friends. She feels less torn because she only has one set of rules (I don't agree with many of them but unless they affect her safety, I stay out of it). It is extremely difficult for me not to have her in my daily life and I only see her every couple of weeks, with phone calls in between. At first I insisted we see each other more often because I felt she needed her mom to be part of her life on a regular basis but that only caused resentment because she, again, felt that it interfered with her life. As soon as I realized I was being selfish and saw her point of view, our relationship changed drastically. IMHO, I feel that we lose touch with the reality of what a teenager needs - space.

I know my posts are always long-winded, but that's me. If you don't like it, don't read.

ambushed
"The opinions expressed herein are solely my own and do not represent the views and opinions of the other members of this forum and are not meant to imply that everyone should hold the same opinions"

[Gary M]

***sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine, right up there with 'your', and 'you're'.

That is unfortunate, because you are mistaken: To insinuate is (among other meanings, such as to sneakily introduce oneself) to suggest or hint, and finds its roots in the latin for "to instill."

I'm with you on "your" and "you're" though, as well as "its" and "it's" along with "there", "their", and "they're." Of course, there is also "peaked", "peeked", and "piqued."

I didn't post this for any other reason than my desire to be a Mr Smarty Pants at the moment

Cheers!

Gary

[wretchedotis]

Just for the record...

I 'imply' when I say something to you.
You 'insinuate' when something is said to you.

:P


***sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine, right up there with 'your', and 'you're'.

[Gary M]

ambushed
"The opinions expressed here are solely my own and do not represent the views and opinions of the other members of this forum and are not meant to insinuate that everyone should hold the same opinions"

*Like*

Cheers!

Gary

[ambushed]

In response to Mess's post:

First, English is not my first language so I apologize for any grammatical errors.

I have the right to make any kind of comment I want. This is a public forum whose purpose is to have its members express their opinions, ideas and thoughts. It should be a given that any comment I make is my personal opinion based on my life experiences and my point my view. What else could they possibly be? I didn't attack anyone personally; I didn't call anyone names; I didn't push my opinions on anyone, I simply stated them.

I'm sorry that I did not qualify my comments with a disclaimer saying "The opinions expressed here are solely my own and do not represent the views and opinions of the other members of this forum and are not meant to insinuate that everyone should hold the same opinions", but I will be sure to do so from now on.

You say that I am making sweeping comments which are unsupported and go against the experience of most parents here. I ask you how you know that it is the experience of "most" parents here? Are you not making a sweeping comment yourself? It could be the experience of some parents, a few parents or most parents but how do you know which it is? Have you set up a poll?

I am not speaking for yourself and your children, I am simply expressing my opinion on the matter based on my own experience, and also from the experiences of other parents who are members of a local divorce support group that I run with four other parents (men and women). The experience of most of the parents from that group is that shared custody does not work when the parents are not amicable. The experience of most of the parents of that group is that it is difficult on the children and that they feel they don't belong anywhere (by that I meant they do not feel at home at either homes). The main purpose of this support group is to educate members on the pros and cons of sole, joint and shared custody. We created this group because we found, from our own experiences, that it is very difficult for newly separated parents to make wise decisions about their children when they are entangled in the emotional turmoil of divorce. We present real-life scenarios and focus on what can happen down the road once the court orders and parental agreements are filed.

I have strong opinions about the negative aspects of shared custody when the parents are not amicable. I am entitled to those opinions. I feel there are issues with joint and sole custody as well and, in the end, what it comes down to is that divorce is usually bad all around if the parents are not amicable and cannot put the well-being of the children first, no matter the type of custody arrangement. I have met many parents who do well, but more often than not that is not the case. This is simply my opinion.

To clarify, shared custody in Ontario is when the child(ren) has to reside with each parent at least 40% of the time. The parents must also share the decision making. With joint custody, the parents share the decision making but are not obligated to have the child(ren) a set amount of time. It is decided by both parents and a schedule is included in the parenting agreement. With sole custody, only one parent is legally responsible for the decision making and the amount of time the child(ren) spend with each parent is also set in the parenting agreement. Access and custody are two completely different things and many people, from what we see in our group, do not realize that.

You said, "What you have done is insinuated that I don't want my children happy, that I don't want the best for them, because obviously they "feel they have to please me."

I did not insinuate anything. This is your own interpretation of what I meant. What I meant, based on my own experience and that of the other parents in my group, is that children in shared custody situations sometimes feel they have to be a certain way with one parent and another way with the other. We invited teenage children to one of our meetings to discuss how they felt about the shared custody arrangement and they "all" said that they didn't feel at home in either home. Several even stated that they were angry that their parents got to enjoy their respective homes on a daily basis but that they had to adapt every few days to very different lifestyles. I wanted to share my experience from this group on this forum because it has helped me move forward quite a bit.

I'm six years post-divorce. It's been a struggle, especially when my daughter left last year. The endless bickering with the ex had ended I could focus on the relationship with my daughter now that she is coming of age. We have a great relationship now and I've come to terms with the fact that she is no longer part of my daily life. I don't like it but I have to live with it. I have a great job which is very fulfilling and my health issues, although still a daily issue, are something I've also learned to live with. I finally felt like my life was back on track. I was thrown off-kilter when I received the email from my ex a few days ago. I posted the message here in a moment of anger and sadness that I still had to deal with issues with the ex. I never would have shared part of my "story" had I not been in that state of mind. I did not retreat behind my story of the accident. I felt it was important to clarify to billm that I have been taking responsibility for my life and was not blaming my ex for my financial situation. There was no way to do so without sharing some of that story. It was probably not a wise choice and will certainly not make a difference in the end. I have plenty of friends who know me and my entire story. This forum is filled with strangers and there is no reason for me to reach out to strangers. I guess I just wanted a different perspective. Thank you for sharing yours.

ambushed
"The opinions expressed here are solely my own and do not represent the views and opinions of the other members of this forum and are not meant to insinuate that everyone should hold the same opinions"

[mummer1962]

Wishing you all the best on your journey

[Mess]

billm - as with any posts made on public forums, there is always more to the story than can be shared. You make assumptions based on a few lines of text and you automatically assume that I am blaming my ex for my financial and life situation.

billm can speak for himself, but frankly I find your attitude intellectually offensive.

I sympathize with your problems caused by your accident, but that doesn't mean that everything else you write is reasonable. We still must be able to disagree with you.

billm beat me to it when he responded to this:

Please don't assume that shared custody is the best scenario. It does not work if the parents are not amicable. It means nothing once the court order is filed. It is extremely difficult on the children who don't feel they belong anywhere and who feel they have to "please" both parents.

which has nothing to do with your injuries or your choice of meditation instead of medication.

You are making general statements which are unsupported and go against the experience of most parents here.

"It does not work if the parents are not amiclable." Bullshit. Parents in a shared parenting situation have the same amount of contact with each other as parents in a sole physical custody situation. It can be lots, it can be regular, or it can be minimal. It depends on the parents, not the custody agreement.

"It is extremely difficult on the children who feel they belong anywhere (sic) and who feel they have to "please" both parents." Do us a favour and speak for yourself and not our children. You don't know our children, you don't know how happy they are, you don't know how hard they would fight to keep shared parenting for themselves. Any divorced situation is hard on the children. My children are happy and wouldn't have any other situation than shared. You have no right to make a sweeping statement like that. What you have done is insinuated that I don't want my children happy, that I don't want the best for them, because obviously they "feel they have to please me."

If you want to argue against billm or myself for making sweeping statements about the positves about shared, fine. But don't do it by making offensive sweeping generalizations yourself, and then retreating behind a story about your car accident.

[TLCRN]

mcdreamy, your right a separate thread is needed on how to deal with teenagers as it's not always easy when they decide they don't want to do something....and peer pressure...and the rest such as coming home from school learning they have rights, reading the kids help line on the milk carton....remember that?

dadforlife: congratulation and hope it is truly over for good.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that shared custody is not the best for everyone, but I have to tell you that it has it's up and down, disagreements with decision making, and every situation is different.

[ambushed]

The point is that shared parenting should be enforced unless it can be proven that it is not in the best interests of the children.

Kinda like innocent unless proven guilty.

From your other post "ambushed", your daughter was 15 when she decided she did not want to live with you - calling it 'kidnapping' is nonsense. Also from your previous post, your financial situation is not your ex's fault. It seems to me that you want to blame it all on him, but from what you said in your posts, its time you take responsibility for where you are in life and your relationship with your daughter.

billm - as with any posts made on public forums, there is always more to the story than can be shared. You make assumptions based on a few lines of text and you automatically assume that I am blaming my ex for my financial and life situation.

I was in a major car accident several years ago that involved three cars. I was not at fault. I now have metal plates in both my legs, my back and my neck. I have had nine surgeries. I am in constant pain and suffer excruciating migraines. I do not live in my home province and have no family here for support. After months of physio (still ongoing), I was able to go back to work on a part-time basis. Our daughter was three. I chose to do so because I have always been a hard-working, productive individual and I wanted to contribute to the family. I took care of our daughter and household while he chose to work 80 hour weeks (and only being paid for 40). Seven years after the accident, I found out he was having an affair with a mutual friend. He decided that I no longer fulfilled his physical needs and he moved in with his girlfriend. Ironically, she was also involved in a car accident as a passenger 18 years ago and she sued the driver. She purchased her house with her settlement and has been on disability ever since. She suffers from back pain but has never had surgery or been in the hospital or in physio.

I take full responsibility for where I am in my life (and proud of it) and I am solely responsible for supporting myself. My current financial situation is very unlikely to change since I only have a high school degree and with my health issues, I am limited as to how much time I can put in to work. I refused to ask for SS although my lawyer and judge strongly suggested it. I could easily apply for disability but as long as I can work, I will do so. I am now back to full-time work with a very understanding employer. My ex's third wife receives a large amount of SS from him. I could have asked for much more CS but, again at the dismay of my lawyer, chose not to do so. I only wanted what was fair and did not want him to be financially strapped as this would only affect our daughter.

I choose meditation and alternative treatments as opposed to prescription drugs because I want to be emotionally and mentally available to my daughter. My daughter left because Mom "isn't any fun". It's been really hard to be joyful since the separation but how do you explain that to a teenager. Only maturity and life experiences will help her understand so I patiently and anxiously wait for her to get there. I said that my ex "kidnapped" my daughter because that is how I feel. I feel he kidnapped her emotionally. She is the only family I have. You obviously read my other post before I deleted it so taking some info from that post (bankruptcy and all) and adding this background, you should now understand how much I needed my daughter in my life. Yes, we had difficult times but I have always put her needs before mine. Unfortunately, as a teenager, she cannot comprehend the hardships that I have been through due to the accident and the divorce proceedings.

I was feeling really down today due to his selfish request to claim our daughter as a dependent when he is not entitled to it. I found this forum and thought I could get some support and answers. It was not my original intention to divulge so much info in this post, as well as the other that I have since deleted. I'm not looking for a reality check - I have those every minute of the day - nor for pity. I just wanted objective advice and opinions and, maybe, just a little bit of positive support.

It's too bad some people feel they can figure out a person based on a few lines of text. I'm sure you'd get along great with my ex!

[May_May]

So, 2 1/2 years and $20,000 to get to exactly where you should have been all-along? Yep, it's some system we have here, huh? Does anybody doubt that divorce is an industry?

I completely agree with Gary. My stbx husband is very difficult to deal with in so many aspects, but I have never (and would never) go for anything other than joint custody (as all parents should unless a reason otherwise has been proven). Our children need to see both parents (in my opinion they should be able to see their mother, as much as the father). I rented a house 2 blocks away so our children can go back and forth easily between our houses (not just on swap days)...This is how all marital breakdowns should start (equal !)...

Congratulations to you...What an accomplishment ! Grab a drink and celebrate...

[Nadia]

Congratulations

It is so nice to hear good news.

Yes, no one knows what tomorrow is going to bring. Something you can say about life in general I think.

Celebrate how far you have come and what you have managed to achieve. Get a nice long drink sit back and enjoy what you've managed to do for your children.

If you ever need to fight (for anything) again, you'll be able to use this experience to your strength.

congratulations

[Gary M]

Congrats, Brother!

So, 2 1/2 years and $20,000 to get to exactly where you should have been all-along? Yep, it's some system we have here, huh? Does anybody doubt that divorce is an industry?

Enjoy, and don't listen to the killjoys on here who should be allowing you to relax for a while.

Cheers!

Gary