Arias TRial

[Tayken]

Makes me wonder if the Canadian courts recognize Borderline Personalty Disorder or is this condition generally lumped together under the term "mentally ill" thereby offering an excuse for the crime committed. Also I wonder if Personality Disorder is true mental illness.

BPD ("Borderline Personality Disorder") is a recognized mental health condition. It is clinically recognized, diagnosed and mentioned in case law quite often in a number of matters.

You can search CanLII (CanLII) to get a better view into how the court and expert witnesses present the evidence to this mental health condition.

BPD has some issuses on diagnosis though which make it not as "recognized". It is a broad stroke diagnosis at times. Most people are NOS Personality Disordered on diagnosis generally. (Statistically speaking not clinically.)

There are billing codes for the diagnosis and treatment in OHIP. (ICD-9) So, to answer the question, is it a recognized mental health condition? Yes.

Note that it lies on Axis II of the DSM spectrum. Most "mental illness" are Axis I disorders (e.g. Major Depression, Adjustment Disorder, et all...).

The term "mental illness" isn't really a great term to use. It isn't really appropriate and CAMH has a lot of great materials to assist the public in understanding "mental health issues". Illness is often best left to accute non-psychological conditions say like - cancer.

Personality Disorders are a true "Axis II Disorder". The ontology doesn't lend well to "illness".

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

I don't know about anyone else but I have found the Jodi Arias trial to be quite interesting. Today she was found guilty of murder #1. Trial has covered many areas, including alleged domestic abuse.

I found it quite interesting. Specifically the allegations of "domestic violence" made in self defense. Most interesting was the "expert" witness that hasn't gotten the best reaction from the public and colleagues in Psychology.

The use of the journals in the trial was quite interesting. The forensic psychology reports on the journals were quite interesting. I was hoping to see Dr. Christine Ann Lawson to address them. Dr. Lawson has done the most comprehensive study on the poetry/journals of "borderline" (Axis II disordered) people.

Suffice to say, I wasn't surprised at all when the forensic psychologist got on the stand and announced that Jodi was "borderline". Although it was much more complex than that.

Mess' comments are dead-on with regards to what challenges lie with an "Axis II disorder" versus a "psychopath". Although Sociopath (antisocial) is an Axis II disorder in cluster B as well.

DSM-V has much better definitions for Personality Disorders than previous DSM-III and DSM-IV-TR.

This case exposed a lot of elements and concerns that Mr. William Eddy and others often write about when discussing highly conflicted people.

The cross examination on the journals is quite interesting. Brilliantly executed by the prosecution. They had some great experts helping them position the questions. Very "WorkingDad" (devistating) in detail.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Rioe]

Wow, you managed to hit a bunch of my knowledge buttons here! I think I should clear up a lot of misconceptions before confusion is propagated further. Just like with family law, people rarely know how the criminal law system works until they are in it. The following is a bit simplified, but not inaccurate.

The sentence of life imprisonment is different in the U.S. than in Canada. In Canada, "Life" usually means 10 years. In the U.S., "Life" means life.

They can have parole, or an order of no parole. In this case, Arias received a sentence of no parole, so she will be in prison for her entire life.

In Canada, life means life as well. Many people serving life sentences never get out of prison. The years part is how long they must serve before they can be considered for full parole. For First Degree Murder (premeditated) it’s always 25 years. For Second Degree Murder (spontaneous) the judge sets it anywhere between 10 and 25 years. Life sentences can be given for some non-Murder crimes too, with parole eligibility between 7 and 25 years. And Canada always allows parole to be a consideration. But just because they can be considered for parole then, doesn’t mean they get it. It has to be earned and this usually takes much longer than ten years. And even if they do get it, they are still closely supervised and can go back to prison and have to re-earn it if they screw up.

Aside, in the U.S. multiple convictions are served consecutively, while in Canada congruently. So if you have two 10 year convictions in Canada, you serve them both in 10 years. That is not so in the U.S.

In Canada, determinate (finite, non-life) sentences can be either consecutive or concurrent. It’s up to the judge, who can mix and match as he or she considers appropriate to come up with a total length of a sentence. For indeterminate sentences, it wouldn’t make much sense to have anything consecutive, as life is life.

Arias likely is suffering from Boarderline Personality Disorder. This is one step away from Antisocial Personality Disorder which is commonly termed a "psychopath." She is dangerous. This is not considered "insanity" in terms of sentencing. She understands right and wrong and knew what she was doing. Generally speaking, if you clean up after you murder someone and then say you didn't do it, this is evidence that knew what you did was wrong.

Borderline PD and Antisocial PD are two different, though similar, animals, and psychopathy is something different again. Personality disorders fall into a category of dysfunctional behaviour patterns, usually formed through childhood, each with their own set of defining characteristics. Borderline PD (emotional instability, self-destructive, fear of abandonment) is more common among women, and Antisocial PD (irresponsibility, disregard for others, unlawful behaviour) is more common among men. They are both difficult, if not impossible, to treat, as personality tends to be pretty immutable once you reach adulthood, but maturation with age helps. Psychopathy is a sort of subcategory of extreme Antisocial Personality Disorder, thought to have more of a genetic basis instead of a socially influenced one, with all its characteristics, plus glibness, pathological lying, complete lack of remorse/empathy and more. I’d say the best characteristic of a psychopath is their ability to fake not having Antisocial PD. It’s also pretty much impossible to treat. Treatment attempts tend to just train psychopaths to get better at going undetected.

It has been very interesting. I don't believe she will have any chance of parole. In Canada? Quite likely, but not in the U.S where the sentences are consecutive. I believe it's called "concurrent" here in Canada. As in, a violent criminal can kill 2 or 3 ppl, and the sentence is like a "2 (or 3) for 1" (sentence).

Someone can be convicted of multiple murders, and get a life sentence for each of them (say Robert Pickton), but they would be concurrent so the parole eligibility date would still be 25 years. But you can bet being released would be a lot harder than if they had killed just one person.

Not having watched this Arias stuff, I can’t offer an opinion on her. I don't watch anything that reminds me of work.

[arabian]

^thanks hadenough

I was wondering about concurrent/consecutive.

[hadenough]

It has been very interesting. I don't believe she will have any chance of parole. In Canada? Quite likely, but not in the U.S where the sentences are consecutive. I believe it's called "concurrent" here in Canada. As in, a violent criminal can kill 2 or 3 ppl, and the sentence is like a "2 (or 3) for 1" (sentence).

I believe Jodi Arias will be sentenced to Arizona's Death Row where she will likely exhaust her appeals and then die by lethal injection in about 10-12 years.

http://m.voices.yahoo.com/concurrent...law-93749.html

[caranna]

Arias likely is suffering from Boarderline Personality Disorder. This is one step away from Antisocial Personality Disorder which is commonly termed a "psychopath." She is dangerous. This is not considered "insanity" in terms of sentencing. She understands right and wrong and knew what she was doing. Generally speaking, if you clean up after you murder someone and then say you didn't do it, this is evidence that knew what you did was wrong.

Makes me wonder if the Canadian courts recognize Borderline Personalty Disorder or is this condition generally lumped together under the term "mentally ill" thereby offering an excuse for the crime committed. Also I wonder if Personality Disorder is true mental illness.

[arabian]

BitHunter - yes it makes a person wonder doesn't it?

Mess - thanks for the clarification. I agree with your description of the personality disorder. It will be interesting to see which tactic the defense takes today.

[BitHunter]

Arabian,
Do you want to say that she is going to be free and can start a new life with clean page without the everyday hassle from the ex sooner than we?

[Mess]

The sentence of life imprisonment is different in the U.S. than in Canada. In Canada, "Life" usually means 10 years. In the U.S., "Life" means life.

They can have parole, or an order of no parole. In this case, Arias received a sentence of no parole, so she will be in prison for her entire life.

Aside, in the U.S. multiple convictions are served consecutively, while in Canada congruently. So if you have two 10 year convictions in Canada, you serve them both in 10 years. That is not so in the U.S.

Arias likely is suffering from Boarderline Personality Disorder. This is one step away from Antisocial Personality Disorder which is commonly termed a "psychopath." She is dangerous. This is not considered "insanity" in terms of sentencing. She understands right and wrong and knew what she was doing. Generally speaking, if you clean up after you murder someone and then say you didn't do it, this is evidence that knew what you did was wrong.

[arabian]

I don't know about anyone else but I have found the Jodi Arias trial to be quite interesting. Today she was found guilty of murder #1. Trial has covered many areas, including alleged domestic abuse.

In the sentencing portion of her trial, I wonder if having a personality disorder is any sort of defense.

She has spent the last 5 or 6 yrs in prison and even if she gets life, instead of the needle, she will be released in under 10 yrs I think.