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  • Mediation mess

    Just had my second mediation session today. Can't say I'm overly optimistic about my future. Quick rundown...My base salary is around 90K...but I work overtime and last years T4 showed 109K. STBX has an MBA but has been at home for the last 5 yrs. Five years ago she started a small home based cash business and last year she started teaching at college and has offered her T4 as 12K....
    Mediator steps in - goes through divorce mate numbers. CS is around 1500K, SS 1500K....leaving me with about 1500/mth if I don't work OT....OT varies - I could work 10 hrs one month and 50 hours next - am at the whim of work.
    I want the kids 40-46% of the time and the mediator indicates that I will STILL be required to pay the full CS. If I do that how do I pay for expenses incurred when I have the kids? If I were to only see the kids once a week or not at all and its 1500.00.....besides the benefit of the love of my kids, how do I survive..unfortunately love doesn't fill their stomachs.
    Further he mentions that winter clothing may be viewed as a s7 expense....what the hell is the CS for? Do an 8 and 5 yr old really consume that much in utilities and food each month? So my STBX is getting 3k from me plus her 1K per month and the only money I can guarantee is 1500.00...I thought that this process was an "equalization" of assets.........am very tempted just to run this thing through the system...if Im gonna be out this money Im gonna fight the whole way...

  • #2
    According to the child support guidelines, at $90k your c/s should be $1281.

    They are basing your income off of your grosse amount with OT at $1514, (which is correct, but should you get less OT next year, it would be reduced to an amount equal to your actual salary).

    At $90k, given grosse amounts, you would be left with a grosse income of ~$4500. At $109k, you are left with $6000 before taxes. So your math about how much you have left is off slightly. And remember, SS is deductable.

    IMO, with $1514 in c/s, winter clothing would not be a s7 expense. That is a significant amount of money and your ex should be able to provide for the needs of your kids with it.

    Setoff amounts are not guaranteed. Given your ex's nominal income, the setoff would be close to what you pay anyway. What you should be doing is pushing for your ex's income to be imputed to what she is capable of making given her education/skills, or bare minimum, full time min-wage (which is about 7-8k more then she is making now).

    You are best to focus on the kids and why shared custody is best. Don't focus on the money in discussions or you will look like you are only going for shared to avoid c/s.

    But offer her like $1k in SS and table c/s to be calculated each year based off of your T4's. CS will fluctuate to match your income (including OT). And stay strong on your request for more parenting time as it is in the kids best interests. But you have to journal your involvement now. You have to show that you are involved, you take the kids to school, help with homework, cook dinners etc. Otherwise it will be a losing battle.

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    • #3
      You may just have to change your name from thefunone to thebrokeone.
      Your situation is not unusual. Going through the system may just net you the same result with additional court related costs to boot.
      Overtime can indeed bite you in the butt. My husband, like you, worked a lot of overtime in the year preceding his separation form his former wife and got dinged with a high CS figure that was a struggle to maintain. He too, was ordered to pay a large sum of SS. Like you, his wife was educated but in the few yrs. preceding the split and at the TIME OF SEPARATION had not been earning to her full potential. Hence the SS.
      It's tough and there's only one way around it. Keep your future OT to a minimum ( even tho that will be raised as you not making enough in future) and make some money on the side, cash, or under the table so you don't starve to death. Learn to love sausage, bologna and Mr. Noodles. Forget about new winter clothing for yourself unless it's from Value Village!!
      If AT ALL possible, try and get your SS on a sliding scale, or with an end date. My husband is still paying SS to his former wife who lives with another man, works full time, and has been receving it for 7 1/2 yrs.

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      • #4
        Winter clothing is Section 7 ? That's BS ! I would demand another mediator to begin with, he/she is obviously biased toward your wife (surprise surprise !)

        With respect to OT, perhaps try and get them to use an average of your last 3 years if your income fluctuates due to OT. CS will automatically be adjusted if OT slips in future years but its a bitch getting SS changed.

        There is a member on here who is a genius at "Divorce Mate". The system is flawed and lawyers often enter incorrect data hence get incorrect (usually too high) numbers. For example, are you maintaining life insurance for your ex's benefit ? If so, that should be deducted, etc.

        I agree she should also be inputed a higher income; at least min wage, preferably on what she COULD earn. IN my opinion, focus your energy at reducing SS since its hard to change later. CS will automatically adjust IF you earn less or she earns more.

        Good luck.

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        • #5
          Winter gear may indeed be considered a S.7 expense if the requirements are due to sports or extracurricular activities the kids are enrolled in. Depends on the situation, however NORMALLY clothing is covered by CS.

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          • #6
            The kids are old enough and in school full-time. Ex can return to work immediately. Offer 1 year SS to "get her on her feet". Don't believe divorcemate, it always gives inflated numbers because people don't use appropriate inputs. Any and all family expenses you continue to pay (health insurance, life insurance, CS, etc) are not to be included in SS calculations. Include on her side any and all government benefits (baby bonus, CCTB, UCB). Imputing her income to minimum wage is the bare minimum.

            Your CS will be high for year 1 until she is back at work, but will fall after that. I'm here to tell you that you can and will probably have to live on 1500/month take-home for at least the first year, I know I did.

            Welcome to Ontario family law. You have a higher income than your spouse? She's not working right now? Then you're screwed, probably for life.

            Be very wary about shared if she's not on board with it. I didn't believe it would happen to me, but very soon false allegations of abuse crept into the discussion, involving police, children's aid and many more thousands of legal fees even AFTER I negotiated my agreement and proceeded to divorce. Apparently it happens in about 80% of cases. Women cry abuse (against them or the kids) and the system in place ruthlessly destroys whatever rights you legally had. Once you're accused, you have no rights.
            Last edited by winterwolf7; 10-18-2011, 01:26 PM.

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            • #7
              thanks winterwolf - am well aware of the potential for false allegations of abuse....always have a voice activated recorder with me...for personal interaction and phone calls.....and I actually leave the house after the kids go to bed until such time as STBX is in bed...then make my way to my own room...am very conscious about what could be "claimed"....

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              • #8
                and to suchislife...am eating Mr Noodles roght now....LMFAO

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                • #9
                  I don't understand. My stbx and I are doing 50/50. I never tried for anything else as I believe our kids should have equal access to both of us. He is fighting every cs expense (we balance at the end of the month with each of our purchases). Are you all saying I could go to court and still get him to pay cs to me even though we do an avg of 41/59 to 50/50 ? That is wrong. If you have your children as much as ur stbx ... why are you fully accountable ? Shouldn't she be set with a proposed income equal to a job she could be doing based on her education ?

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                  • #10
                    Thanks May_May....As was indicated earlier - there is a huge disparity in income (at this time) between my STBX and myself...and I have been told that even at 50/50 the re-calculations do not support a huge difference in CS. The mediator advised us that even if my STBX offered to take less than the table amount - I would always be responsible for the entire amount...meaning that...if I paid her half of the CS and she agreed to it for a period of say 3 years...and after those 3 years if she wanted retro pay because she was falling short of money - whether or not she was gainfully employed - she would be entitled to it. The suggestion put forward by the mediator was to adhere to the CS...maybe tweak the current proposed parenting plan and try to come to some sort of agreement on a lower SS payment so I am not left totally destitute.
                    If STBX refuses to budge on anything then I will be looking to get a wage imputed....which unfortunately means money for lawyers. While I appreciate your situation and the somewhat amicable decision to 'share' CS expenses - mine is not so amicable.

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                    • #11
                      theFUNone...Thanks for the explanation. I think this is wrong personally and your ex should be expected to work and contribute to CS. The children should not suffer...but some of that responsibility should be put onto your stbx. Good luck !

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                      • #12
                        May_May - unfortunately - what appears to be common sense to those of us involved in the sytem...is not always what gets deemed appropriate to those that 'run' the system. Will hopefully update after our next mediation session.

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