Underpaid child support

[hockeydal]

I have been separated/divorced for 7 years. During that time I have been receiving child support. However, for the past 3-5 years I have come to find out I have been underpaid. My ex never supplied me with his income tax statement. I just went by what he said he made...stupid me.
Through our divorce I learned about this underpayment. Going back just 3 years...since I'm not sure how long I can go back, he ripped me off over $6,000 in underpayment! Can I go after that??

[Mess]

The legal onus is on you to request yearly tax assessments from him and have the CS amounts updated yearly.

The law does not require him to do it automatically. Many people have this written in to their separation agreement. Other people work it out between them and aren't concerned if CS is exactly the table amounts.

He didn't "rip you off". The money isn't yours, it's the children's. Without knowing how much he supports the kids when they are with him on visits, what he pays for separate expenses etc, no one here is going to judge him.

Your process is to require him to provide CRA asessments for the last 3 years. He has to comply by law to that request, but make sure you send him a registered letter and for convenience also send the same letter by email. (Email shows the date sent, your address, his address etc and you can print it out. Do both email and registered.)

If he doesn't comply, you file a motion in court requiring him to do so. This can be done without a lawyer, you go to the courthouse at 8:30 am and ask the duty counsel how to fill out the form.

If he does comply, you file a motion to change the CS amount. You don't need a lawyer, ask the duty counsel how to fill out the form. You attach copies of the assessment notice to the affidavit.

[hockeydal]

Im pretty sure I understand the money is the children's but FYI he doesn't see them or spend any "extra" money on them. Now if we can get back to my original question...I believe I can retrieve the money that was not paid. If you aren't sure please don't respond. The table amount is there for that reason to reflect the amount the children receive based on his income!

[mom2three]

Im pretty sure I understand the money is the children's but FYI he doesn't see them or spend any "extra" money on them. Now if we can get back to my original question...I believe I can retrieve the money that was not paid. If you aren't sure please don't respond. The table amount is there for that reason to reflect the amount the children receive based on his income!

Mess answered the original question; you chose to ignore it. Maybe because you didn't like the answer? Answer: The onus is on YOU to take the action; when you take the action, he must comply. The action is to file the motion. As Mess noted, the court will assist you in filling out the forms. In doing so, child support can be claimed retroactively, but nothing will get done until you take the first step.

[Tayken]

Im pretty sure I understand the money is the children's but FYI he doesn't see them or spend any "extra" money on them. Now if we can get back to my original question...I believe I can retrieve the money that was not paid. If you aren't sure please don't respond. The table amount is there for that reason to reflect the amount the children receive based on his income!

1. Your negligence is not the fault of the other parent. As the custodial parent it is your responsibility to make sure that the proper rules are being followed and you have just as much obligation under the law to know and understand the rules (FLA, CLRA). Unless you can prove that the other parent with held the information to his benefit while your children suffered you have a case.

2. Your attitude in your response demonstrates a very highly conflicted and possibly angry mentality. It includes what appears to be a projection of blame on the other parent for being dishonest. I have no insight into why or how the financial information you were provided by the other parent was delivered but, it appears you are attempting to paint the other parent as a "deadbeat" possibly. As your response is mostly an emotional response surrounding a financial question it appears to me that your emotions are wrapped around the financial situation and not your children's "best interests".

3. The Family Law Act and the Children's Law Reform Act has all the rules you need to follow for requesting financial disclosure. Simply fill out a Form 20 (Request for Information) requesting the information that the other poster provided. Should the other parent disregard the Form 20 request you can attach it to your affidavit for a future motion. You have every right to request the information. Should the other parent 'avoid' providing full and frank financial disclosure under the rules then you can proceed to court.

4. If the income difference is not significant you may want to consider a more amicable solution rather than going to court. Judges typically hate to see motions for support differences that are not significant. Furthermore, they also don't like when parents do not provide full and frank financial disclosure. But, the request for this disclosure has to be done in accordance to the rules (FLA & CLRA) and have to be served on the other parent.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[HammerDad]

The legal onus is on you to request yearly tax assessments from him and have the CS amounts updated yearly.

Actually, I believe the onus is on the payor to inform the payee each year. Unless my memory has mistaken me, the Alberta Four case of a few years back shifted the onus from the recipient to the payor as the payor is the one who has detailed knowledge of any change in finances for themselves. They also know they have an obligation to pay support based off of the guideline amount. I believe that decision has carried weight throughout Canada as it was a Supreme Court ruling:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fcy-...df/rcs-par.pdf

Page six, 3rd or 4th paragraph.

The guidelines said the onus was on the recipient. It isn't anymore.

[NBDad]

Here are some basic rules for you go forward:

1. Don't accept what the ex tells you verbally without documentation to back it up.

2. Don't take legal advice from your ex.

3. Don't take legal advice from your ex's lawyer

The child support guides are pretty easily located. You can agree to accept less than table. If you have been doing so all along, he can argue that he was paying off X marital debt and that you knew about it. Or that the two of you had agreed to this amount. He could be lying, but how do you prove that?

Now that you know the amounts are not correct...what steps have you taken to address it? If you went through a divorce, one of the things that MUST be handled is support. Did you bring this up at that time? If not, why not?

[hockeydal]

Finally someone sensible has responded! I knew it was his onus. Thanks NBDAd!

[mom2three]

Wow, that word onus can really get some people confused!

Your ex has the onus of showing that he provided you with the information; if he does and CS had never been changed to reflect that then you would have a really tough time asking for retroactive.

That does NOT leave you without the onus to show that you have requested the information and none has been provided to you. The onus is on YOU to get the proper information if he does not provide it.

No one here has said that you would not get retroactive child support; what they have said is that the onus is on you either get the proper info from him OR take the appropriate steps to get the information; that is where your onus lies.
Continuing to sit and wait for him to oblige his onus ain't gonna get you squat.

[Tayken]

Wow, that word onus can really get some people confused!

Your ex has the onus of showing that he provided you with the information; if he does and CS had never been changed to reflect that then you would have a really tough time asking for retroactive.

That does NOT leave you without the onus to show that you have requested the information and none has been provided to you. The onus is on YOU to get the proper information if he does not provide it.

No one here has said that you would not get retroactive child support; what they have said is that the onus is on you either get the proper info from him OR take the appropriate steps to get the information; that is where your onus lies.
Continuing to sit and wait for him to oblige his onus ain't gonna get you squat.

Bang on. The real twist is that you have to request the financial disclosure per the rules. You can't assume anything with regards to financial disclosure.

If you run into court demanding financial disclosure and you didn't ask for it and serve the request prior to the motion and make some attempts to get it... You will not find a sympathetic judge at all. Judges are not one for creating or supporting unnecessary conflict.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[hockeydal]

Tayken FYI he was ordered to supply me with a financial disclosure.. I didn't demand a dam thing nor did he supply it. He is in the wrong not me but whatever because i will prevail and have the last word in the end.

[blinkandimgone]

Well you're certainly determined to here! Have you ever stopped to consider that it's not always about 'being right' or 'having the last word'?

If you did, you might find it a whole heck of a lot easier communicating with your ex.

[Mess]

Actually, I believe the onus is on the payor to inform the payee each year. Unless my memory has mistaken me, the Alberta Four case of a few years back shifted the onus from the recipient to the payor as the payor is the one who has detailed knowledge of any change in finances for themselves. They also know they have an obligation to pay support based off of the guideline amount. I believe that decision has carried weight throughout Canada as it was a Supreme Court ruling:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fcy-...df/rcs-par.pdf

Page six, 3rd or 4th paragraph.

The guidelines said the onus was on the recipient. It isn't anymore.

???

Sorry, I read the link through several times. The decision of the court was that it still depends on the payor's blameworthyness in the situation. There was no black and white decision that the payor must inform payee of any change in income or automatically change support amounts.

The decision seems to me, and to the author of the report, to simply clarify aspects of "blameworthyness". It seems to me that the decision does tilt the scales of responsibility toward the payor, but it does not make it an unequivical responsibility to act automatically.

In my earlier post I made the suggestion that a payor may be spending more on the child while the child was in their care. In such a case, they may have a genuine feeling that they are providing the correct amount of support. This is one example scenario. The issue is whether there is any intent on the part of the payor to deceive or otherwise deny the proper support. Even an honest statement of "It never occured to me" would reduce or eliminate blameworthyness.

As such, the decision does not call for any automatic action on the part of the payor. It still lies with the payee to request updated information.

Current legislastion does not require parents to automatically forward updated financial information (ie tax assessments) yearly and the court has no power to alter legislation that specifically. Ultimately we still have to ask.

[ddol1]

Finally someone sensible has responded! I knew it was his onus. Thanks NBDAd!

I am sorry for your difficulties. I am sure you will find out how to correct your error in judgement and you will do your best that your children will indeed benefit in some fashion. Personally I start a thread because I have searched the old threads and still require help - I appreciate every response, even the one's that tell me I "just don't get it" - my goal here is to "get it - it just takes me a bit sometimes!"

However, I may get knocked for this but I might suggest you make an effort to find out who is helping you (of thier own free and generous will) and since I am aware of how much help some of these posters have been to everyone's benefit and not only my own, this well just hit me wrong. I again take this opportunity to thank all the posters here who not only try and tell people the rules and how to get things done but also just as important how we must all learn how to think and act for the good of our children. The latter sometimes is the hardest to learn when we are in a state of despair with our world crashing in front of our eyes.

So Hockeydal, may I suggest you take a peek at the posters and notice the number of posts that are listed in the top right hand corner. (this may help you understand what sensible means in the spirit of this forum) I can only hope that I will be around long enough to be able to give back what I have recieved.

[blinkandimgone]

Don't be silly, it's all about who is right and who to blame. D-uh!