Spliting Day Care Expenses

[Human Way]

The old problem of Child care problems has creeped up again. Our child goes to school durring the day. She needs 1 hr. of care in the moring and 0.5 hr of care after school. A total of 1.5 hrs per day.

The question is do I have to pay for the entire 1.5 hours per day or is the split between the two of us? There for being 1.5 divided by 2 = 0.75 hrs. a day.

Then the calculation would be 0.75 hrs a day times five.

Thanks for your input.

HW

[blinkandimgone]

It should be split between the two of you and the costs allocated proportionate to income.

ETA: this would apply to the actual out of pocket expense after UCCB and other applicable credits are applied.

[dadtotheend]

ETA: this would apply to the actual out of pocket expense after UCCB and other applicable credits are applied.

You split the after tax cost of daycare. UCCB isn't considered in that calculation, just the tax deduction related to the child care and the increase in the CTB that arises from the child care deduction.

[NBDad]

Assuming 50-50 split custody, both would be getting UCCB anyway. This is what it's intended for.

If it's a sole custody/access split under 60-40, then you can try to negotiate to have it included before you split the difference proportional to income.

Legally though, you split the cost proportional to income, get your own receipts and claim the expense on income tax.

[Human Way]

Thanks for the heads up. The only thing about after tax benefit is she pays the nanny under the table so she does get any tax benefits, And i guess i don't either. So, because our incomes are similar we would split it 50/50.

[Human Way]

does it make any difference if the day care person is taking care of another child of the ex as well? Does the cost get cut into another half? The nana works in my ex house and cleans and cooks. Which is a piss off as i dont get the benefit of that but pay for it.


Another Question. And this one seems a bit silly, i need to know. What is the smallest amount of time one can break down the measurement of care? Right now we are in the half an hour range? Has anyone measure time in 15 min. increments? Over a one year period 15 mins. times. 54 weeks can added up?


Last question.
When is a child eligible to not receive day care. That is . Lets say 12 years of age, the child is no longer in need of care of a nanny. Has the courts every made a ruling on this?

Thank you for your input on this. It makes a difference!!

HW

[InterprovincialParents]

Parents are legally able to leave a child alone after their tenth birthday, but remain legally responsible for them entirely until the child is 16. It is not a matter of when, but a matter of when is your child in particular ready, for not every child matures at the same rate...the judiciary has ruled on this on a few occasions, typically using a standard clause in orders that state "until the child's XX birthday" (usually 12...but not always)

[dinkyface]

If you can come up with some numbers that support that nannys charge extra for 2nd child, and for cooking/cleaning while there, then I'd definitely try to exclude these extra charges from the portion you are splitting.
Perhaps talk to some nanny services to find out typical fee schedules? (ideally you would find out how much less that particular nanny *would* charge for 1 child, no housekeeping, but that's just supposition - unless she's from a service that sets rates)

[InterprovincialParents]

the confusing facts of childcare calculations...damn proprietary software!

does it make any difference if the day care person is taking care of another child of the ex as well? Does the cost get cut into another half? The nana works in my ex house and cleans and cooks. Which is a piss off as i dont get the benefit of that but pay for it.

Usually, a childcare provider will offer "rebates" on a second child. Best bet, call where ex got provider, and do a full questionnaire, pretending to be a prospective client...aka "I have two children, one who is old enough not to need care. If the provider looks after both, what is the rate versus looking after only one?"

PS, forgot to mention you will need both your gross and ex's gross income from previous year to calculate amounts at FLIC or law office.

Another Question. And this one seems a bit silly, i need to know. What is the smallest amount of time one can break down the measurement of care? Right now we are in the half an hour range? Has anyone measure time in 15 min. increments? Over a one year period 15 mins. times. 54 weeks can added up?

Childcare expenses, when added up over the course of the year, are averaged to the nearest half-hour. A court will say, ok, 1.5 hours per day, 5 days per week=7.5 hrs/wk plus (usually) 10 hrs per day for 8 weeks of summer. Additionally, the average school board has 6 PA/PD days, and for this you will want your school's calendar. Each of those are also allotted 10 hours.

In total, you have:

46 days @ 10 hours;
190 (38 wks @ five days) + 24 (6 wks @ 4 days)=214 days @ 1.5 hours

Total hours:

460 Summer hours
321 School Year hours
781 Grand total max possible hours at 1.5 per day.

Then, the court takes that number, multiplies by the wage of the provider for monetary total annually. That number is run through software to get your proportionate share of after-tax and after-rebate amount.

If you know the amount the person makes /hr, you can take that $ amount to the Family Law Information Centre, and get them to give you your share after tax (conveniently, only courts and other judicial/legal offices have the software to calculate the tax rates...not even CRA has it).

[Human Way]

Thanks for the math. ILL see what i can do to make this at least fair.

[Human Way]

Hi good people.

I am still struggling with this subject with my ex. I have a few questions for you.
Does it make any difference that the Day Care is being paid cash only. She is not registered and there is no tax benefits for either of us.

The problem i am having, is how do i verify that the nanny is working for the hourly wage my ex is quoting? I do not have a say in how the person was hired or the wage. Do paying dads have any rights in this matter? How does the court look apon nannies that are being paid under the table?

thanks. i appreciate your input greatly!

hm

[dinkyface]

Cash only, non-registered, under the table is not relevant. The courts won't care about this.

If your ex won't provide receipts/bank statements, then you probably will not be able to verify the claimed hourly rate. But if it is significantly above the 'babysitting - one-child - working hours - no housekeeping' rate, then you can argue that you will pay only based on the market rates, for daycare services as described in the CS guidelines.

[karmaseeker]

[quote=dinkyface;63940]Cash only, non-registered, under the table is not relevant. The courts won't care about this. [quote]

Not relevant? As in they will make you pay anyways as it is a section 7 expense regardless of registered care?

or

They will say it is not a provable expense therefore inadmissible?

sorry for being thick... but this is vital.

We have been paying a non registered under the table DC provider for years without receipts. She took us to FRO for being late with this on a couple of occasions. FRO can't process - no receipts. When we go to court will a judge relieve us of this expense? Since still no proof given after 3 months of requests from our lawyer?

[NBDad]

Typical scenario is that you either pay your share directly to the provider OR the ex provides you a receipt and you reimburse within 30 days. Otherwise, whose to say she just isn't making shit up?

I would make argument that you have asked for a cost break down, have asked to be shown receipts, etc. and it has all been denied by her. You aren't fighting the fact the child needs care, you are fighting to have her provide proof of actual costs involved, which she is obligated to provide.

[dinkyface]

Cash only, non-registered, under the table is not relevant. The courts won't care about this.

I meant that the court will not care about what type of daycare facility is used (licensed or not) or exact payment arrangements ('under the table' is a CRA issue). They would care only if it was affecting parental access, or parent's ability to work, or if there was a safety issue, or if a parent was not paying their share.

If your ex cannot verify the amounts paid, AND they are unreasonably high, then you have a case for just paying based on what you can argue is reasonable.

If the claimed amounts are reasonable, she may be able to wiggle out of providing receipts (though possibly not if she wants FRO involved to enforce)