Quick question re: Child Support Calculations

[Gary M]

Learned friends,

Most of the background info is in my original thread...

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...variance-7603/

... but I have a simple (I think) question. Quick recap:

I am the custodial parent, Mom lives in Saskatchewan.

She has demanded spousal support, including arrears, despite a verbal agreement that I wouldn't pay SS and she wouldn't pay CS.

It's with the lawyers right now and my motion is ready to go. We sent them an Offer based on our incomes and the new Custodial Payor (of SS) formula, but one thing is confusing me - my lawyer insists that the SS she recieves is not counted as income for the purpose of calculating CS table amount. His explanation, basically, is that CS Table is based on Line 150 MINUS any SS received.

Can anybody here confirm or (hopefully) refute this? I'll need a reference, as my counsel showed me one from the CS Guidelines that seems to support his position in black and white.

What I'm hoping to be able to do is have SS = CS so no money has to change hands. I don't want her money and can afford to raise the kids comfortably without it, but it will REALLY peeve (ahem) me off to have to continue to have to pay her to continue to sit on her arse in perpetuity while I am raising the kids on my own.

Thanks in advance,

Cheers!

Gary

[rwm1273]

Check this site for info.

Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines

[Mess]

The spousal support guidelines won't answer his question about child support.

The lawyer is correct, here is a federal worksheet showing what can be deducted from income, includes spousal paymants.

The Federal Child Support Guidelines: Step-by-Step

[rwm1273]

Check out section 8.9 of the guidelines. It is several pages in from the link I provided earlier but this link is to the page. It seems to explain the formula.
8.9 A Hybrid Formula for Spousal Support Paid by the Custodial Parent (The Custodial Payor Formula)



Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines

[Roni]

No one can make you pay any support, unless you have a Court order to do so. Revenue Canada sent me a letter and said that I could not deduct the child support I was paying my ex, because I didn't have a Court Order

[BitHunter]

Revenue Canada sent me a letter and said that I could not deduct the child support I was paying my ex, because I didn't have a Court Order

This is maybe something interesting if it is true. Do you mean that the child support is deductable from your income if you have a court order???

[Mess]

In the past Child Support was tax deductable, that was changed but old orders were grandfathered, so if your order was from before the change it would still be deductable. If the parties got a new order, for example because of change of income, then they lost the deduction.

rwn, those pages, including 8.9, are for spousal support calculations, they don't answer any question about child support calculations.

[Gary M]

Thanks guys - got the answer (even though I don't want that answer (grin)

Seems bizarre that it's income, but not income... Free money for her.

Methinks that the paperwork is lagging behind, and hasn't fully considered custodial payors yet.

Sux to be me, but that's life, right?

Thanks again,

Cheers!

Gary

[HammerDad]

Spousal support is tax deductable for you, and c/s is not taxable in your hands so ultimately you should come out ahead.

I would have assumed that SS would have increased her income as she has to claim it as income on her tax filings and you get to deduct it. Bizarre.

[dadtotheend]

I was paying $1,000/mth in SS that was deductible and received $300/mth in non-taxable CS, so I cut her a check for $700 each month until SS ended. After the tax relief my net payment was $350/mth.

All that said, I wouldn't spend a buck just to save 35 cents.

[Gary M]

Thanks DTTE

My lawyer came up with some pretty encouraging numbers based on imputing her salary to about $10K below what she could easily be making.

In keeping with my desire for a "wash" between SS and CS though, I (against his advice and most likely in a fit of ill-advised compassion) made an offer of $1000/mo SS in exchange for $500/mo CS. In my tax bracket I'll get half of the $1000 back, so it's a case of me breaking even and she'll make 2 or 3 hundred/month.

I doubt she'll go for it, though, as she still in "punish the bad man" mode. Her lawyer has already advised her (CC'd me) that she will remove herself from the case as soon as I file a Motion - she will not represent her in court. I guess that a blood-sucking leech who abuses her kids, tries to soak the CP for cash so she doesn't have to work, and tries to use the System (FRO) to punish her ex, tends to look bad in court... Her lawyer wants no part of that; can't say that I blame her....

On the good news front, the kids are still doing a-ok and are enjoying their new life. They've stopped fighting, daughter is back to being an A student (but she wants piercings: eeeeek!), and son recently wrote an English paper stating that his sister is his hero... I think they're going to make it through this after all

Happy Saturday, everyone!

Gary

[blinkandimgone]

Glad to hear the kids are doing well, that's the most important thing. As for the piercings, I think most kids want something or other these days, lol. There are worse things, I employ the 'pick your battles' strategy with mine. My 12 year old has over the last year said she wanted piercings. I've told her I have no problem with that - if she still wants them when she's 18 she can pierce whatever she wants!

Good to hear things are looking up for your family!

[Gary M]

My 12 year old has over the last year said she wanted piercings. I've told her I have no problem with that - if she still wants them when she's 18 she can pierce whatever she wants!

Heya Blink!

Tay just turned 15... I am torn between indulging her (being her friend) and making her wait until she's of age to do whatever she wants without consent (being her father).... I wonder, though, if I take a hard line what will happen when she's old enough to get 'em on her own: I foresee barbells and rings all over her face. Or, worse, if she and a friend start playing with an ice cube and a needle (been there, done that, have a scar on my left earlobe to prove it! LOL)

The rational intellectual in me thinks it's prudent to allow her to get one tasteful piercing (like a "Monroe") and hope that satisfies her desire to put holes in her face.

Way off topic now, huh?

Cheers!

Gary

[blinkandimgone]

I totally hear what you're saying, it's a tough call to make. If it were me, I'd be tempted to show my kid pictures of all the things that can go wrong with a bad piercing and impose a 'wait X months and if you feel the same way we'll talk about it again' stance. Aside from that, there is the option of allowing a piercing that won't be seen all the time like the navel. Also, make sure you're aware of all the possible long term effects: monroe = gum erosion, labret = erosion of tooth enamel etc. and go to a place that is willing to discuss those things with you. The place I use now is by far the best place I've ever been to and I'd be happy to share the info with you.

Or you could take her to get her nose pierced and that will cure her from a desire to get anything else pierced for a very long time! lol

[InterprovincialParents]

The rational intellectual in me thinks it's prudent to allow her to get one tasteful piercing (like a "Monroe") and hope that satisfies her desire to put holes in her face.

A note about Monroe's that you may want to advise your daughter on (I learned this one from my pierced niece, who had one): They are more prone to infection than say...a brow piercing or nose piercing. They also can erode a tooth's enamel from rubbing against it. (same goes for tongue rings)

Also, from a practical standpoint, depending on her career aspirations, facial piercings are a definite deterrent for employability...and if you quoted me on that, I would deny it (discrimination, and all...) but having managed people in the past, I know it is the unspoken practise...Appearances still are everything!

Thought of encouraging a discreet and hideable tattoo? lol