Bankruptcy

[sad_dad]

This is a general financial question, not related to support - sorry but just hoping someone can provide some advice here.

I'm trying to plan for the worst: if the mother gets custody and I am ordered to pay support, I will not be able to afford doing so without declaring bankruptcy. I assume the court will not take this in to consideration (not that they should, but $400 spent by me on the kids will go ten times as far as $400 spent by her because she has no sense of frugality and a portion of that will go to booze, etc. you get the idea)

With that said, morals aside, what's stopping me from running up my remaining CCs before declaring? I have had to sell most of my posessions to keep up with her spending habits, the fact we live in a "luxury" apartment that a young single income couple has no business being in (but she refuses to live where 'poor people' live), my clothes are faded and worn...she is expecting me to drive 132 KM one-way to get the kids each weekend. So is there any legal recourse in me replacing my clothes with ones that look presentable, getting snow tires for the vehicle out of concern for safety, maybe buying some christmas presents ahead of time so I don't feel worthless and pathetic when I have nothing for the kids... before filing?

I'm really not trying to be greedy. I have gone without. I graphed our expenses and did some calculations and my expenses (such as going out for lunch w/ company employees for team birthdays) account for 0.03% of our expenses. Just to give an idea for what I've done without while she has 10+ pairs of shoes.

[billiechic]

I can't answer related to the bankruptcy. But snow tires and a new pair of pants every 6 months are NOT luxury items. Neither are a few Christmas presents for your kids.

[dinkyface]

Not answering your question, but I'd guess you will be thinking of arguments for reducing CS. One reason is high access costs. Do some searching on 'undue hardship', maybe you find some ideas there.

Assuming the $400 is from the tables, I think you would need to show some unusual circumstance to get the amount reduced, since these are deemed to be appropriate-to-income values.

For 2 kids in Ontario, $400 (i.e. $4800/yr) corresponds to $26800. That's $22000 after taxes, and $17200 after CS...to run a household with space for 2 kids - yikes!

[NBDad]

As far as I know, you can't declare bankrupcty if you've used the cards in a certain period of time. You may want to check with a bankruptcy trustee to be sure on the rules.

[logicalvelocity]

As far as I know, you can't declare bankrupcty if you've used the cards in a certain period of time. You may want to check with a bankruptcy trustee to be sure on the rules.

That's false with respect to credit cards. Although, disposal of registered assets in last two years prior to declaring would be documented as part of the bankruptcy.

Additionally, one may bring forth a consumer proposal in lieu of bankruptcy resulting in a R7 rather than R9 rating and be discharged much sooner if accepted by the creditors.

A good resource on the subject:

http://www.bankruptcy-ontario.org/

[sad_dad]

I will take a look at that site.

400 was just an example sorry ,I was trying to be discrete about values. From the tables it looks like I would be paying $827 for the two kids to start, then somewhere around $1043. It will fluxuate with my bonus, which can literally be 0-48% of my salary with it most likely around 12-15%.

I really don't have any issue with paying it, aside from the fact I know she'll dick around with the cash and the kids lives wont be nearly as enriched as they ought to be.

It's just the debt payment that's a huge chunk - $1100 the minimum, never-paid-off-in-my-life amount.

Then again, without her here I'd have a lot less other expenses. Maybe it would work. I will have to see after this month how much of an impact just not even having her around made, let alone sharing of the kids.

[Deputy Daddy]

I was in the same situation. I'm a saver by nature and she was a spender by nature and it caused no end of stress. Now we're divorced and I'm still a saver and she's still a spender, but we're each enjoying (or suffering) our own financial situations independantly. I've now paid off all of my marital debt (except for my mortgage) and she's the one contemplating banruptcy. Getting divorced from her was very expensive, but not nearly as expensive as living with her!

What's with the 132km? Will one of you be moving? If it's her moving, and that's her choice why not keep the kids yourself? 50/50 is pretty much the default as long as the parents live close together and there are no reasons (abuse, addictions, etc...) to keep the kids from one of the parents.

DD

[dadtotheend]

Running up the credit cards prior to bankruptcy probably won't be an issue. It's immoral, but you're not asking that I sense. Just use them in a manner that doesn't look obviously like you are deliberately jamming them to the hilt the day before you file for bankruptcy.

I am saddened that you seem to have given in to your whacked out ex taking the kids from you. You are going to regret this - WAY WAY more than anything you regret about bankruptcy.

[sad_dad]

We're both from St. Catharines, and moved to Kitchener near the end of '08 for me to work at RIM. Since her arrest for assault with a weapon, she is now living back in St. Catharines between her moms and her dads and fully intends on the kids moving back there with her. I want the kids to stay with me and enjoy the life that I am working towards rather than hopping on the welfare bangwagon. I can't afford to have them in daycare with the debt payments hence my question about bankruptcy, I was thinking of even paying for some daycare using the CCs if they take it.

I guess what I don't understand is how access works at such a distance when one parent moves away. Her family is offering to half the driving but I know that wont last. It will be two weeks before I get a call saying we can't come pick the kids up, bring them down to us, blah blah.

She has no vehicle, no license, but does not view Kitchener as "home" because she never really wanted to move to begin with.

[billiechic]

There is no evidence here to support shared parenting. SHE ATTACKED YOU!! How are you going to work together?? Your in-laws are NOT responsible for provinding transportation.

Seriously, you need to figure out how you are going to take care of your kids. How were you doign it before? Was she working? Either you are going to have to pay for daycare (and wait for her to pay you CS) or you are going to have to pay CS yourself. Either way the cost is similar.. so start making a plan. You are going to need a SOLID parenting plan when you go to the judge and ask for a temporary order for custody,,,so get going!!

[sad_dad]

She has never worked. The kids are 2 and 1 - she stayed at home with them, and had planned (term used loosely) to home school them.

My plan is for the kids to be in daycare. Forget the money side of it, because that's irrelevant in the court and I can make it work one way or another.

Are you saying that I am essentially free from having to deal with HOW she gets access to the kids? Is the judge not going to ask me, as on the form, what my plan is for her access? Should it not be more elaborate than "she can come see them if she figures out a way"? What stops her from taking the kids before the court date?

I get that I have to have a plan. But I don't see how I can act on said plan until there is a court order. It's chicken or the egg to me.

[dadtotheend]

You bring a parenting plan based on what you are seeking.

I have to be honest with you. From here it looks like you are letting it slip away.

[billiechic]

O, you act like the plan is already in place. It is NOT up to you to arrange transportation for the kids to see their mom. If her parents volunteer, great, but DON"T take on that burden, she will only find flaws in it.

Parenting plans are meant to be ideal, but workable. You assume that you will be getting CS, that you will keep being employed, that you can afford reasonable daycare. It's a plan, it's not and absolute. Just make sure you detail reasonable access for her in it. Based on the situation, I would offer her EOW for now, but only IF she enrolls in a partner abuse program and completes it.

[NBDad]

Access costs are either going to be HER responsibility, or split 50-50 with you.

Get thee to a lawyer and get an ex parte order done granting you interim sole custody due to her violent temper. (She's violent, therefore you fear for the children's safety at present)

It'll cost somewhere in the range of 2500 to do it. Rack it on a credit card if you must.

Once you have that, start negotiating. Offer her EOW with the caveat she takes a partner abuse program, or undergoes some sort of anger management therapy.

DO NOT ALLOW HER TO TAKE THE CHILDREN WITHOUT A COURT ORDER OR SIGNED AGREEMENT (reviewed by INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL ON BOTH SIDES) IN PLACE.

You *WILL* regret it if you do.

In regards to access, if you want to be very fair about it...offer to split it 50-50...SHE is responsible for providing transportation to BEGIN her access...YOU are responsible for picking them up to END it. If she can't get there, not your problem.