Not sure if ex is trying to bully me

[Melora]

My ex and I went to court today for a resolution case that they do now before it goes before a judge. This got us nowhere and was a waste of time. I knew my ex would not budge in terms of having to pay more child support.

Me ex salary has increased and my situation has gone much hardship so much so that I have to declare personal bankruptcy. The reason for this is a long story. I found out that my ex had been underpaying me child support by a good amount for 3 years and I was encouraged to take him to court as I need the extra child support especially now. I cannot afford a lawyer and in these cases I cannot get a legal aid lawyer. I have to do this all on my own with the help of many different lawyers for the next 3 months.

I just got an email from him asking for half the money for our kids oral surgery that is upcoming - they are both getting something done on the same day. He knows my situation and has not asked for me to pay for half before.

He said he will expect my half at the end of the month. We have a 60/40 split, if that as the kids are mostly here. I was told that we have offsetting child support if both parties have an income, which at the moment I do not.

Can he do anything legal to me if I do not have the money? Can he take it off of the child support he already pays me if he wants to? After today and the bankruptcy I am so stressed. I don't know if he is just trying to bully me or what.

Please help and thanks.

[Mess]

You are both responsible for section 7 expenses proportionate to your income.

You can't have an income of $0. At the very least he will seek to have you imputed an income equal to minimum wage, more if you are skilled, have a trade, a degree, etc.

He is obligated to inform you of these expenses, sending you this information is not bullying, although if he is being an ass about it then that is a different story.

The child support set-off with a 60-40 shared arrangement should mean that your table amount would be deducted from his table amount, he would pay the difference. Since your income is 0, but that would not be acceptable to the courts, he will probably seek to have his amount reduced to as though you had some reasonable level of income. Minimum wage would yield about $18-20,000 per year, depending on how many hours you count.

As far as what happens to the dentist bill, it depends on how he is paying you. Do you have a court ordered amount? He would be wise to seek a change through the courts then. Yes, the amount would be deducted from child support.

[Melora]

We have a standing support order in place.

I am seeking the change due to the low amount he has been paying for two kids. The judge in our case never followed the support guideline to begin with. When the court lawyers looked at the file they could find nothing in there to show how the judge came to that amount. My ex makes a very good living.

This was never my idea to start this but was mandatory to continue to live where I do because it is a geared to income home. They want to be sure that I am getting the proper support. They found I was not getting the proper child support and the difference was a decent amount or I doubt they would bother pushing this.

My income is the support I receive from him which does not cover 1/4 of the bills for living expenses for us.....I have to go to a food bank to get food to eat. I also receive spousal support from a common-law-relationship which is not much either. I am in a deficit situation meaning I have more bills than I do income per month thus why I have to file bankruptcy.

Yes, he is trying to get an income put against me but even with minimum wage he is still underpaying me by $200.00 per month.

I have been paying my side of things (big ticket items like school trips etc) until last year when hardship hit me. We have always had two separate homes as he would not allow the kids to bring anything from his home to mine - no clothes..nothing. Despite my situation I still have to buy everything for them that they need except this large amount item - this is the first time I did not have the money.

I do not have the money.....no money to give to him.....nothing......I was also told in the meeting today that because I have no money that I cannot be expected to pay these items at the moment because I have no money at all for this. You cannot get blood from a stone where none exists.

The other development is that our son who just turned 18 wants to live with me full-time. He did not want to tell his dad and so I had to today which upset him because he obviously believes I am behind this. My son has been with me all summer so far and has decided he does not want to go back because he sees what his dad is all about. His dad's wife and him do not speak quietly about me in front of my kids. My son is fed up with that amongst other things.

My son has to go back to high school to get his diploma in September than he wants to go to college, however there will be a lapse in there of 6 months before he goes to college full-time. I have no idea how the court rules this one because I know child support is paid even if the child is 18 and is a full-time student who lives at home as he is still a dependent. So I have no idea what is going to happen with that.

Our case is not an easy one and as I was told it could go my way or it could go his. Or it may go down the middle. It all depends on the judge, the mood of the judge etc.

I have to say this is all taking a toll on me and my stress. I am depressed and the kids see that. This is not fun for them. I don't know if I can but I am wondering if I should try and stop this and accept his offer of an extra $100 a month. I just don't know what to do especially now that my son wants to live with me full-time.

The email he sent me he sent after the meeting when he never did this before even though the oral surgeries has been in place for months. I know he is angry at me for all of this even though he spoke to the agency that does my geared to income. They told him it is mandatory for my living here. He does not care it is still my fault.

[dadtotheend]

With all due respect one wonders why you are unable to work, and how it is that you find yourself on the precipice of bankruptcy.

[HammerDad]

Child support in a 60/40 split is a reduced amount.

The way it is calculated is you take his income and figure out his guideline amount. You then take your income and find your guideline amount. You then subtract the lower amount from the higher amount and that is the amount that is to be paid to the lower income earner.

You are responsible to pay for your share of all extra-ordinary expenses. This will be based off a percentage of income. So if you earn $20k and he earns $80k, you have to pay 20% of all extra-ordinary expenses.

You cannot claim that you are making no money. You are required to provide for your children on you own. If you have employable skills, your ex can request the court impute your income at the average income for someone with your skills. Failing that, they can request that the court impute your income at full time minimum wage, so about $18k per year.

He may not have done this before as he may have understood you're financial position. However, it doesn't change the fact that you were obligated to pay for any other previous expenses and he could've been requesting it all along.

[Mess]

I don't want to come down hard on you, but I have to ask the same questions DTTE has. Your presentation is coloured by your desperation and poverty, you are stressing that you are unable to support your children on the amount of support you receive etc. You can't walk into court and have this not be challenged.

You live in assisted housing, and both of your ex's are paying support. If you have a medical condition that prevents you from working you should be receiving ODSP, if your condition is genuine it is not that hard to get if your doctor signs the forms, despite the repution of the welfare office as ogres.

Your kids have been living with your ex half the time, and he has been supporting them there above the level the law requires. Technically, you should have been paying child support to him while they are there, he pays to you while they are with you. The fact that the amounts are set off against each other, one side cancelled out, doesn't change that you are responsible for support as well as your ex. He has a legitimate gripe against you.

The housing authority where you live are not, I suspect, imputing you an income for the support calculations. I work closely with managers who do the same job and this is not their job description. You are reporting to them $0 personal income, and some amount of spousal and some amount of child support. If the children's father increases his amount to the full set-off table amount, due to an income increase, he will still not meet the expectations of your housing authority, because the housing authority is not calculating a set-off. I'm not looking at your file with them, but I would be 90% sure this is the case.

The child support is not there to support you, it is there to support the children. Exactly what will you do when the children leave? Your subsidy will level out, but you will still have no income. Child support is not a solution for the problems you are going through. Sorting out a bankruptcy, I hope you are working with a credit counsellor, and you need to work with an agency that will help you with employment skills as well. You can't just stop living. I understand what depression can do, and I don't think for a minute that you can fix all this by tomorrow, but you do need to focus on what you need to move yourself out of this without being dependant on your ex forever.

[Melora]

I did not want to get into my whole story but I guess I have to.

I had ovarian cancer. I was ill from 2001 - 2007. I had two major surgeries during this time. After having a full hysterectomy I began to have endless health problems one after another. I was diagnosed with different things and put on many different medications that nearly killed me. I found out in 2007 that the doctor who performed my hysterectomy was involved in a class action law suit for many mistakes he made during surgeries even killing a woman. I went to the lawyer representing these women to find that I had 90% of the problems that these other women experienced after their hysterectomies. We found out later that his mistake rate, for that year, for hysterectomies, was over 30%. This is a huge amount. There is more to this story but I would be writing forever. I realized when I was told of this in winter of 2007 what was causing my health issues. I got off all meds that I was put on that also ballooned me up to 240 lbs which added more health problems due to the weight.

I was on my way to getting my health back in 2007 for the most part. I still have problems and am dealing with them. During that period I was not able to work.

I went back to work in 2007 but was let go because I was to slow. First time back to work in a long time I guess I was.

I kept looking for a job and finally found another job in 2008 only to be laid-off in Feb 2009. The recession was hitting and it hit me.

I was also in a 9 year common-law-relationship up until April, 2009. My ex-fiancée came home one day and told me he wanted to leave the relationship. My kids and I were blindsided. I did not see this coming. The house was in his name. I had to leave the home with my kids. I had no money, no job, all my furniture was replaced by new items he bought and mine tossed. I had nothing. We lost our home, someone we loved very much and our dog all in a minute.

How does a person come back from something like that? How do your kids come back from that? We have been fighting our way back since April of 2009. I have had to help my kids through all of this because he chose not to see them anymore. He never discussed this with them,,,,nothing. The guilt I feel is enormous because I allowed this heartbreak into their lives.

I was able to get a lawyer (legal aid) and we settled on spousal support. I did not go after him for child support because in my mind he is not their bio father and I did not feel that was right. The spousal support started March, 2010.

My daughter had a very hard time but lately has been a lot happier. My son was diagnosed with clinical depression with thoughts of suicide. His father does not believe him. His father has not been to one of his therapy appointments. His father just keeps adding to the pressure by telling him what he must do to be successful. My son, as soon as he turned 18 knew he could chose where he wants to live and he wants to live with me. This was his choice. I have asked him to speak to his dad about this to make sure he really wants this, however he would not. I have encouraged my son to speak to his dad and he said he would and I hope he does. All I want is for my kids to be happy.

During this time my best friend committed suicide so you can imagine how I feel about my son right now and the fear I live with.

Since I was laid off in Feb, 2009 I have been applying everywhere and anywhere to get a job with no success while dealing with all of the above at the same time. Why I am not being hired I do not know as you would have to ask them.

My car is very old and is on a day by day basis (my mechanic checked it over and told me this) and to make matters worse I live in a town with no public transit. The radius of my job search is small. I have looked into Go Train etc. The logistics, depending on where the job is, would be a nightmare. My daughter would be on her own most of the time as the kids school is down the street from where I live.

A number of other issues have happened that I have had to deal with as well a long the way. I have had no time to take a breath before the next bad thing would happen.

After 15 months of this I have been diagnosed with situational depression. I tried so hard not to end up there but here I am.

I have never missed a payment on a bill in my life. I have A1 credit. I went to a debt/credit counselor who told me to file bankruptcy as there is no other choice because I cannot go on this way. She was shocked I managed to do it this long without missing a payment on anything. I met with a trustee who told me the same thing. This is very hard for me to do.

I know I have to take care of the kids when they are in my home. I am well aware of that and always have. I have always paid my share on anything extra until April, 2009. My kids were covered under my ex-fiancée heath plan and his plan paid for my daughter's retainer and half my son's braces and all of their prescriptions.

I have not paid for my half of one thing since I had to leave my home last April and that was a school trip for my daughter. That was the first time and this is now the second.

I have been paying him support as they took off whatever money was on my tax return at the time which was not much and they subtracted it from his child support. As I said this was all just recently explained to me because I did not have a good lawyer during the divorce. The lawyer wanted to take my ex down. He wanted to go after spousal, child support, back child support because the kids father only started paying child support 3 years ago. Any decision I made I always thought how it would impact the kids and if it was negative I did not do it. He owed me $40,000 back support that I waived. People have called me nuts. I waived it because he told me he would have to sell his house and move back in with his mom and what would that do to the kids. I, of course, bought it. The same day I signed the papers he drove up, to pick up the kids, in a brand new SUV. He got married within months and moved into a much bigger and more expensive home. He knows my kids are everything to me and he played me well.

We did not get divorced until many years later due to my health issues and lack of funds for a lawyer. I was not going to ask my ex-fiancée to foot my legal bills. The last of my savings went to pay the lawyer for the divorce.

I live on spousal support and child support. All the child support goes to supporting them. I do not use it for other things. I am trying to change my situation but nothing is happening for me yet. I have been to employment counselors, I have done it all.......I have left no stone unturned.

I am able to go to the food bank for food. Churches have been kind with food vouchers. I was able to furnish my home from strangers who were going to throw items out. I have been very frugal with what money I do have. I have no social life, I do not smoke nor drink so no money goes on that. Everything is for my kids. I lost the weight that I had gained and thank goodness I kept the clothes I had from before I gained weight. I shop at Salvation Army and Value Village. I use coupons. I do whatever it takes to ensure they have shelter, food, clothes and whatever else I can afford to get them that they need.

On the day I moved into this home, that is geared-to-income, I had a letter waiting for me that stated I had to fill out a form in order to for them to check the child support I am getting and to ensure it is the correct amount. I was told this was mandatory. They sent my kids dad letters stating he is underpaying in child support and can the Family support Worker meet with him to work this out. My ex kept dismissing them. The next step was to file papers. I was told that due to my situation having changed from what it was last year and how much the extra child support would help the kids that I should continue to the next step and that was to serve him with papers. How can I argue with that.

You are quite right that the agency never discussed nor put an income against me when doing their calculations. I found that out as well yesterday.

This is my story to date. Now the question is do I go for a motion to change because our son wants to live with me full-time? He will be going back to highschool in September and then college. I was told that this needs to be legally sorted out. Obviously at this time I do not have much money so the extra child support would help out while he is still a Dependant.

Do I continue on with what the agency wants and see what happens or do I take his proposal of an extra $100 a month? I am not sure if I can do this or not as I have to ask the agency. I was told yesterday that even with minimum wage put against me the calculations still worked out that he was $200 short of the guideline support. Should I ask for $200 and settle this if this is what would happen with an income against me anyway? I just want this over. I want peace in our lives or should I continue the course and see what a judge says?

I have so much going against me - I am 48. I have not worked consistently since 2001. My job search radius is small. My car is on a day by day basis. This will not stop me from continuing to seek employment - I have no idea how long this will go on for until someone hires me.

I am applying for jobs I am way over-qualified for with no luck. I am trying very hard to change my situation. Who would want to live this way? I know I don't.

[standing on the sidelines]

wow I am so sorry that you are going through all this. I remember reading about that so called dr in the newspaper. I hope you will get some sort of settlement from the class action suit.

You say you are over qualified for jobs you apply for, have you talked to the employment office and see if they can help you at all. How about the church, maybe they can spread the word that you are looking for work in your field.

I will still continue to get the money that he is short. Why should he be able to decide himself how much to give you?? He has to follow the guidelines just like any other parent. As for your child coming to live with you I am thinking you will have to do a motion to reflect that the 18 year old is coming to live with you and will be a full time student.

I really hope that things work out for you

[Melora]

Thank you very much SOTS. This is the worst time in my life ever. This is by far the hardest and most emotional because it involves my children.

I don't know what will happen with the lawsuit but I hope it is positive. It will take a long time to sort this mess out. Some good has come of it and that is the Doctor is not allowed to practice in North American again. I also believe that women are now privy to the mistake rate of obs/gyn.

I have been to the employment office on several occasions. I know how to tailor my resume for each job. To play down my qualifications. I have done that and am going to do it again at another community office in a neighboring town that offers employment strategies as well.

I have been to the local churches and gave my name and number and asked if anyone knows of anyone looking for help to please have them call me. I have done that with taxi drivers (I could not afford car insurance at one point and we have no public transportation), I have asked at many stores in the area, people I just happen to talk to. I have left my name and number with many people. I have had a couple of problems with that way of doing it from men but if that is what I must do than I do it. I have even thought of jobs I would never ever do ie. those phone lines, out of desperation but in the end I could not do it.

I send my resume if I get a hint a place may be hiring. I have had two job interviews in the last year. One I did not get because I did not know an accounting program and the other one I was never told why even though I asked.

It is unlikely I will get a job in my field where I live. I have a film production diploma and a marketing background. There is not much call for either of these jobs where I live. Any that I see I apply. I apply for any job that I know I can do and even jobs I might be able to fake my way through.

I have tried to get training in a whole other field but I do not qualify for these and I have no money to pay for them myself. I have gone to anyone and everyone. As I said before I have left no stone unturned.

I have hit as far to the bottom as one can go. I don't know if there is any further for me to go and dear God I hope not.

Even the people that are there to help people like me cannot help me. I am not on assistance, I am not or have not been in the last 5 years on EI and I am not new to this country. If I was any of those there is a lot of help for me to better myself and learn something new to get me a job in demand right now. I do not qualify for any of it.

No one is going to magically buy me a car which would solve my problem so that I could expand my job search and get a job much sooner.

My kids hate seeing me cry and be depressed. Who can blame them. I try to hide it as much as I can. I used to be so much fun and they loved being with me because of that. I am none of those things now. I have a world of worry on my head.

I pray every night that something will happen to improve my situation.

I am trying not to become one of the hopeless but I feel like I am losing that battle.

[standing on the sidelines]

can you give a general idea of where you are located? Maybe someone on here can help you out with the job thing. Maybe give you a few leads??

I am so sorry you are going through this. It seems like you have had a lot of stuff thrown at you. I know that my sympathy will not pay your bills but I really do feel for you.

[Melora]

I live in Georgetown, Ontario.

Thank you very much.