Post Secondary

[alive]

Hi,

I have a question on tuition fees. Child lives with ex, I pay CS. Our separation agreement states that for the tuition first has to apply OSAP and any available grants/scholarships, then we pay from RESP that was opened before separation (in my name), then parents contribute in equal amounts.

I accidentally found out that child got OSAP, but attempted not telling me, and demanded me to pay tuition fee in full. We were running out of time and I told child I'll pay this time minus OSAP that time only, but before next term I'll pay only after full disclosure on all OSAP/scholarship/grants received is provided, and not only for current term, but from the beginning, as I felt child misused some of the funds while I was paying for the education.

Child only produced the last OSAP statement and didn't include or indicated if got any grants (I know there should've be at least one just this fall), and claimed that he will only use grant portion of the OSAP, and won't be taking credit. The separation agreement didn't specify what portions of OSAP should be used - it just said use available OSAP.

The deadline to pay the tuition is approaching, kid doesn't respond to repeated requests to provide list of received grants/scholarship/OSAP. From little information I got from child, he spent grant money to buy himself clothes, pay for food, hobbies and hanging out with friends. As much as I want to pay for my older one's education, I have younger sibling living with me who will be going to uni, and I need to save money for that - I am not refusing paying for old one, but want to ensure we stick to the court order, as otherwise younger one won't get equivalent funding.

I guess the question is what to do? Am I within my rights demanding child to disclose what funds he got from grants/scholarship/osap and request he pays for uni from that, before I can even calculate what I contribute?

[rockscan]

Yes you are within your rights to demand full disclosure. No receipt no pay is a term used a lot in this forum.

Not sure what the spirit of the item in your agreement was but technically the split would be grant comes off the top (as well as scholarships and bursaries), then 1/3 is allocated to child with the remaining split between the parents proportionate to income.

Your response to kid and your ex is you will not be paying anything until you have received full disclosure including proof of the OSAP amounts and even then, you will be following the law which is 1/3 to child and the rest split between the parents.

If you have overpaid then that will be applied to the amount you owe.

Kid doesn't dictate to you and what he spent money on and who else you have to save for is irrelevant.

[alive]

the agreement doesn't say anything about 1/3. It does say OSAP, grants and scholarships applied before parents or RESP kicks in. It doesn't spell OSAP grants or OSAP loan - just OSAP. Considering child doesn't work (or doesn't earn enough), does OSAP Loan portion goes towards his 1/3? Or can I say - the OSAP gives 40% of tuition fee (15% in grants and 25% as loan), so you take all of that, and ex and I will pay 60%? Numbers aren't exact as they change with every term. Can child refuse taking an OSAP loan when it is available?

Thank you

[rockscan]

They would have to apply for OSAP as they are entitled to tuition grants. Depending on how much they get it would be their 1/3.

The court would calculate 1/3 of the cost to the child. Then the RESP would come off the top of the amount applied to you and your ex. The best bet would be to split the RESP over the course of the years of study and if kid earns less than $11,000 per year, have the grant money from the RESP used those years.

From there you and your ex split proportionate to income.

If kid is living at home then it is just tuition, books and supplies (includes transportation costs if necessary). If kid wants to buy clothes or video games or anything like that, that's their expense and they need to get a job. Their OSAP goes to school first. If your ex took you to court then the 1/3 would be considered and excess purchases would not be considered.

[alive]

They would have to apply for OSAP as they are entitled to tuition grants. Depending on how much they get it would be their 1/3.

I appreciate your answer, but would like to clarify this part. The OSAP consists of grants (non repayable) and loans (repayable). Child's position that he takes only grant from OSAP (by the style of letter I assume it is written by my ex from child's email account, but it doesn't really matter). I see this as OSAP is OSAP, including a loan, and if court order says available OSAP has to be applied before parents contribution, that includes the loan. Maybe the truth is the loan has to be included to cover 1/3 of after grants tuition fee. Would you have any thoughts on this?

[StillPaying]

Child wouldn't be expected to fund, borrow/repay, their entire post secondary so parents don't have to; regardless of agreement. It's the "free" money they get that comes off the top, then the rest split into 3rds. OSAP loan, if they choose to use it, is for the child's portion. If they get scammed by either parent, they can use more OSAP to cover the costs, then get an order for repayment.

Here a good explanation of post secondary:
https://www.lexisnexis.ca/en-ca/sl/2...-expenses.page

[alive]

https://www.lexisnexis.ca/en-ca/sl/2...-expenses.page

Good link, thank you. Let me copy part from it:

"Children are expected to make a reasonable financial contribution to their own post-secondary education costs. All the financial means of the child are considered and are relevant to the determination of the child's contribution. Those "means" include both income and capital resources, such as:

• employment income;
• savings;
• scholarships;
• grants and bursaries; and
• loans (including OSAP).

The extent that a child is expected to contribute to his or her education costs varies widely from case to case. The analysis is very fact specific, even within the same family.
"

So it is really not that clear. Does court order we have has any weight, or it could be set aside? Our order says that scholarships, grants and OSAP applied before RESP or Parents do.

[StillPaying]

It wouldn't make sense for child to take out loan before RESP's are used. On behave of the child, yes - it could be set aside.

Whether or not a child will be expected to take out student loans depends on the facts of the case, including the intentions of the parents prior to separation and the economic realities of the parties at the time the education expense is incurred. Student loans are routinely considered and will usually reduce the contribution required by a parent if those loans have in fact been received. The student loan should be considered a contribution by the child, since it will be the child who has to pay the loan following graduation. In some cases, where a parent has wrongly refused to contribute to a child's education costs, the parent may be required to make a full contribution to reimburse the child for the loan that otherwise would not have been incurred. And, sometimes a loan is received one year and reduces the parent's obligation, but is not required of the child the next year, or vice versa. As noted above, these cases are very fact-specific.

[rockscan]

My husband went to court on this. His ex felt kids shouldn't have to pay anything. Their agreement said “a reasonable contribution from the child”. It also included the loans, grants, scholarships etc part.

Hypothetically, let's say tuition is $10,000. OSAP grants total $1,000. So then to split it 1/3, kid has to pay $3,000 with the remaining $6,000 split between parents. You would apply the RESP to that.

The rule is that kids shouldn't be punished financially for their parent's split BUT kids do have a responsibility. Your child can't say $500 is my contribution and you can't say use all the loan money.

At this point I think you need the receipts to see what the full cost was and how much grant money was awarded. I have a strong feeling that the other parent isn't stepping up and kid spent all their money on shit. But that's just my two cents.

[rockscan]

Also note, you should be dealing with your ex on this not just your child. The agreement is between you and your ex not you and your child. Not sure why your ex is making your child do this.

[rockscan]

I just remembered…ask for the child's statement of account from the school AND the OSAP account. The school receipt will show the breakdown of loan/grant from OSAP and what fees were charged. The OSAP account will also show it but the school receipt will have a lot of detail.

At least this was the way it was for my husband and both his kids went to different schools.

[alive]

The rule is that kids shouldn't be punished financially for their parent's split BUT kids do have a responsibility. Your child can't say $500 is my contribution and you can't say use all the loan money.

At this point I think you need the receipts to see what the full cost was and how much grant money was awarded. I have a strong feeling that the other parent isn't stepping up and kid spent all their money on shit.

I was paying 100% for child's education (from my RESP opened before separation) until suddenly I discovered there was a grant from OSAP (and more than one, just I know the $ value on one only) and scholarship from the school. So at minimum I say that all grants / scholarships received that were misused, should be applied as future school payment.

The OSAP loan was never even a question before as I didn't know my child was getting one, but as I got myself into this uncomfortable situation with misused grants, I started looking into it as well. In general I agree that child should contribute, and it isn't that my life would become much easier - half of child's 30% is a drop in a bucket, but it is a good economical lesson to a young adult.

[alive]

Also note, you should be dealing with your ex on this not just your child. The agreement is between you and your ex not you and your child. Not sure why your ex is making your child do this.

this is where it get's funny. My ex doesn't talk to me. But I know it is my ex who writes those letters from child's email address - we lived together for way too long, it doesn't take degree in literature to tell apart writing of my ex from my child. So, I can either ignore them completely, or politely ask for account statements, and get a silence in response.
I believe ex is doing it this way, so that should case get to court, ex would claim the letters were written by child, and ex didn't have anything to do with it. But probably I should respond to "have other parent reach to me, I won't be discussing it with you moving on" Not sure. Technically child is now over 18 and is adult.

[alive]

I just remembered…ask for the child's statement of account from the school AND the OSAP account. The school receipt will show the breakdown of loan/grant from OSAP and what fees were charged. The OSAP account will also show it but the school receipt will have a lot of detail.

.

Did exactly that. I was only provided a single statement from OSAP - the older one were not provided, and I suspect it will uncover fund misuse. The school account shows only tuition fee like an invoice, nothing else, is there a different name to this document I should request?

The scholarship/grant information outside of OSAP was also not provided, and I gave an option to state "I didn't receive any". The thing is I know that school gives at least one minimum scholarship, so I know it was given, and likely spent on something other than school.

[StillPaying]

Pre-separation RESP's would come off the top.