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  • EI/Unemployed 1.5 years

    I’m writing this on behalf of someone else.

    She is historically the income earner. Divorced since 2014, legal agreement negotiated between lawyers. Agreement states 12 post dated cheques based off NOA. He worked part time during marriage (under $30k/year), she worked full time ($150k/yr). Post divorce the ex/he did obtain a full time job at $45k per year and remarried (divorce was due to him cheating with new spouse). 3 children, shared custody but custody agreed on to him full custody 3 years ago during Covid. It has not changed, original divorce agreement not changed. This was agreed in an email and there has since been some estrangement with the children.

    Main concern and facts: current child support.

    She lost her sales job April 2022. Has been actively interviewing but is not getting the job. Has been paying the table amount based off $150k/year up until this month. She has been living off savings. Severance payments from workplace ended Oct 2022. Did receive $23k in EI this past year (2023) which will be her income for her upcoming 2023 NOA. Savings now depleted. No more EI to come.

    She wants to pay child support off this years income of $23k EI. Child support will go down significantly. Is this a valid option, with 1.5 years of unemployment?

    (As to her job, I think it’s an age thing in her sales industry, but I’m not about to tell her that. I’ve seen her competition and she can’t compete. I personally think she needs to change industries and I’m slowly beginning to hint that to my friend. Known each other since childhood but she’s sensitive and very egotistical about her job)

  • #2
    I should clarify she is interviewing at a $65-90k salary plus commission level

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey there,

      I'll be straightforward with you regarding the situation your friend is facing.

      First, the mention of the divorce reason (cheating) is irrelevant to the current situation and not worth pointing out. As for the decision to give up shared custody during Covid, that was a significant mistake on the mother's part. She should have known what she was doing, and unfortunately, she will now face the consequences of that decision. The status quo has been set, and it's unlikely to change.

      Now, regarding the child support issue and her unemployment, I have to be blunt: the court will likely see this as willful unemployment. A historically capable individual earning $150k a year now unable to find work for 1.5 years? The court will not look kindly on this, and she better have a convincing explanation. From the details you've provided, my guess is she won't have a good one.

      The court's primary concern is the welfare of the children, and child support plays a significant role in that. A parent who appears to be avoiding their financial responsibilities will face serious scrutiny.

      Your friend needs to be proactive in seeking employment, even if it means changing industries. She must demonstrate genuine efforts to contribute financially, and the court will expect a solid explanation for her prolonged unemployment. Simply saying she can't find a job in her current field won't cut it. A career shift might be necessary, but she needs to act fast.

      I recommend she consult her lawyer again, as this situation is serious. The courts have been moving towards equally penalizing non-payment of child support, underemployment, and intentional skirting of financial child support responsibilities, regardless of the parent's sex. The mom will not get a free card because she's the mother. To put it bluntly, she's kind of screwed.

      Lastly, I have to ask - have you flipped the sexes of the non-paying non-custodial parent in your post? I've seen this done on the forum to gain more sympathy, and it's worth mentioning that the situation is the same, whether it's the mother or father.

      Comment


      • #4
        My husband went through this. He updated his income amount immediately upon losing his job and calculated arrears for the months that were not paid properly. Example: he lost his job in November. He calculated what he was supposed to be paying for the entire year at his previous income and then what he paid. There was an amount owing. He then updated his support based on his EI income. When he started working, he updated his support to that amount immediately as well.

        The case law on underemployment is Drygala v Pauli. Your friend should look it up. My husband's ex was told this in court by the judge in their motion where she was claiming underemployment. My husband had been applying to hundreds of jobs and he was able to demonstrate that his field was limited and he was doing his best to get a job.

        As for custody, you dont mention the ages of the kids. Your friend needs to make an effort to get back to the schedule and enforce it. If she isnt working she has time for them: if there is estrangement, she needs to get therapy started.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by newerwavers View Post
          Hey there,

          I'll be straightforward with you regarding the situation your friend is facing.

          First, the mention of the divorce reason (cheating) is irrelevant to the current situation and not worth pointing out. As for the decision to give up shared custody during Covid, that was a significant mistake on the mother's part. She should have known what she was doing, and unfortunately, she will now face the consequences of that decision. The status quo has been set, and it's unlikely to change.

          Now, regarding the child support issue and her unemployment, I have to be blunt: the court will likely see this as willful unemployment. A historically capable individual earning $150k a year now unable to find work for 1.5 years? The court will not look kindly on this, and she better have a convincing explanation. From the details you've provided, my guess is she won't have a good one.

          The court's primary concern is the welfare of the children, and child support plays a significant role in that. A parent who appears to be avoiding their financial responsibilities will face serious scrutiny.

          Your friend needs to be proactive in seeking employment, even if it means changing industries. She must demonstrate genuine efforts to contribute financially, and the court will expect a solid explanation for her prolonged unemployment. Simply saying she can't find a job in her current field won't cut it. A career shift might be necessary, but she needs to act fast.

          I recommend she consult her lawyer again, as this situation is serious. The courts have been moving towards equally penalizing non-payment of child support, underemployment, and intentional skirting of financial child support responsibilities, regardless of the parent's sex. The mom will not get a free card because she's the mother. To put it bluntly, she's kind of screwed.

          Lastly, I have to ask - have you flipped the sexes of the non-paying non-custodial parent in your post? I've seen this done on the forum to gain more sympathy, and it's worth mentioning that the situation is the same, whether it's the mother or father.
          I hope I’m replying to you properly - sorry I haven’t used this forum in a few years.

          I agree with everything you said. But I didn’t want to post my actually thoughts…. I wanted someone to confirm what I had been thinking. Your thoughts are what I came to with my conclusions, and I needed confirmation.

          It is my girlfriend (but I’m a girl too -we’re not in a relationship together). I’ve known her since childhood. She’s up and down with her family. Doesn’t want to stay with her parents as she is too egotistical to go back home at middle age. So she’s staying with me for the time being.

          There’s no nice way to put this and every human rights lawyer and feminist will shoot me - but she has aged out of her career. She was a long term employee at her previous workplace and the younger talent is outshining her. She was offered management role and never wanted it because she wanted the commission. So she never moved up. She liked the wining and dining so it was nice to have her ex take the kids.

          I’m my opinion, all her life decisions led to this. I told her to get a job at McDonald’s at this point. Something is better than nothing.​

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, and I can see that this situation must be quite stressful for both you and your friend. It sounds like you've been a tremendous support to her, and I appreciate your honesty in sharing the details.

            You're likely right in your assessment that she may have aged out of her career in her particular field. Unfortunately, if that is the case, it's a reality she has to face, and it's on her to figure out what to do next, just like her decision to give up shared custody. Those choices have consequences, and they are ones that she will need to navigate.

            While the court may have some understanding of her situation, they won't simply accept a fully abled individual choosing not to work, especially if it's due to ego, which you seem to recognize. They may reduce the child support amount, but they won't completely dismiss it. There might be some leniency given that she's the mother, but it won't exempt her from her responsibilities.

            Your advice to her about finding work, even if it's not in her previous field, is sound. Something is indeed better than nothing. As tough as it might be for her to hear, her life decisions have indeed led her to this point. The judge will likely expect her to adjust and find a way to contribute financially to her children's lives.

            I hope that your friend can find a path forward that allows her to fulfill her responsibilities and rebuild her life. It's a difficult situation, and I understand that you're doing your best to help her navigate it. Your insights seem very grounded, and I believe you're steering her in the right direction.

            Comment


            • #7
              Rockscan,

              I'm intrigued by your husband's approach to updating his income amount and recalculating support. It seems like a very logical and fair way to handle the situation. However, I'm curious, did your husband unilaterally reduce his payment of child support, or was there a more formal process involved? Knowing how you typically view fathers' responsibilities in these matters, I'd be interested to hear how he navigated this situation.

              Your points about making an effort to get back to the custody schedule and enforcing it are well taken. It sounds like your husband faced some similar challenges, and it's always insightful to hear from someone who's been through it.

              Thanks for sharing your husband's experience, and I look forward to hearing more about how he handled the child support adjustments.

              Comment


              • #8
                He spoke to a lawyer who advised him that support should stayed updated when he had been working. This is what happened…he was unemployed when the divorce was finalized and his agreement said he was to update as soon as he found work. He did that twice in the year it happened (before the next tax return). Then his tax return came in and they followed the standard NOA update which reduced his support since he had made less money the year before. Then later that year he lost his job and his income went down. He saw a lawyer who calculated everything for him and he updated his ex. When his tax return was done, he calculated what he was supposed to pay the year before and sent her a cheque for arrears.

                His ex didn't agree of course and filed with FRO (which was stupid since she then got even less money) and they ended up in court four years later. The judge gave her what for and schooled her on how cs calculations work including the information that the actual income of a party is used if it is different than your NOa then you use the actual income as that amount is supposed to follow the kids.

                It also backfired since we came to learn both kids had been ineligible for support at different points so his new amount of arrears was chopped down significantly.

                As for the relationship his ex severely alienated him. He had moved out of town which didnt help but that is a different story. She told them things that were way over their heads emotionally, would put the phone on speaker and then push his buttons and make them choose between seeing him or doing something with her. She also bad mouthed me and made them think I was a bad person who wasnt safe to be around. Once they were old enough they stopped talking to him. He saw a great therapist who helped him with the alienation but he still struggles. It's been several years and we are hopeful once they are on their own they will reach out.

                Comment

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