75/25 arrangement Is there child support?

[rockscan]

I wouldn't get a soapbox too high there. There are not as many men interested in being full time parents. Things are changing yes but overall the mother is the one doing the full time parent work. Not to mention, canlii is only a sample of cases not all of them so you are already starting with a skewed set of data. Finally, there are a lot of mother's who fight for full custody for whatever reason that I will not debate. All of this together does weigh things in one gender's favour but it isn't enough to start harping about.

There is a reason why so many people on this forum tell men to not settle for less than 50%. It is to change the way courts see things. And to make sure that 50/50 is a given.

A friend was considering divorce and met with at least six lawyers to determine how her case would shake out. Not one of them said she would get full physical custody. They all told her it would be 50/50 and if she wanted to avoid a lengthy battle she would lose, she should agree to 50/50 so lawyers also understand the change that is coming.

[Challenger]

There are not as many men interested in being full time parents.
…
Finally, there are a lot of mother's who fight for full custody for whatever reason that I will not debate. All of this together does weigh things in one gender's favour but it isn't enough to start harping about.

The issue is men get these 50/50 only if they fight, have enough money to fight and have enough patience.

I’ve seen way too many cases when case judge allows mom to be primary care giver while the case is unfolding. If Ontario family courts were few months from application to trial, it wouldn’t be an issue, but presently with waits for 3-5 or even more years, many kids grow up before their father gets a chance for a trial, and even when trial is won (or often time case settled 5 minutes before trial), the poor child grew without a father for years.

So it isn’t really 50/50 equality - it is an uphill battle, with child being a looser from day one. If the default rule was 50/50 until one of the parties proves otherwise or the courts were faster, then indeed we could’ve talk about equality.

[Newfie76]

I wouldn't get a soapbox too high there. .

Oh it’s worth harping about it… just ran out of soapboxes to stack high enough. I know the facts well. The statistics are well known and are fully accessible. The only reason(s) we are even debating this still today… is: 1) The political clout of specific feminist groups are very well connected and have enormous political pull 2) The legal system in the western world has leaned on the marriage system for years as a cash cow, and now more recently have begun utilizing our own children as human shields… they’ve become pawns under the “Best interest of the children”…..

Honestly I can really keep going on this. I’ve tonnes of data on the subject… enough to keep you reading for sometime. I’d had off the record conversations with judges where I had them stammering. Lol The arrogance of these people. They think they are gods! Yawn.. not worth my time to try and convince you otherwise. I won’t change the system by spending my time on a web forum setup by lawyers and that crawls with those unwilling to see the bigger picture. Waste of my time… I’d rather shoot hoops with my son. It is what it is. Men lose… women win. ♂️ I’ve accepted it. Too much energy to burn and life is too short.

Thanks everyone who took the time to read my original inquiry. I’m moving on.

thanks!

[StillPaying]

The problem with these strong, negatively viewed posters is that they can find the info, and really keep going on about it, but don't understand what it really means. It's like complaining you can't find gender specific case law regarding access/support.

[rockscan]

The problem with these strong, negatively viewed posters is that they can find the info, and really keep going on about it, but don't understand what it really means. It's like complaining you can't find gender specific case law regarding access/support.

My comment was more about the lack of cases in Canlii and the comments that lawyers only like conflict. For Canlii, I couldn't find more than two cases on it for post secondary and kid's share, my husband's lawyer found at least 12 cases he used in court on I believe Lexpert which is a paid case service. As for lawyers, my friend met with those lawyers in the GTA and she has a lot of money at stake. They all told her keep dreaming about full physical custody as it wouldn't happen—her husband would get 50/50. None of them said they would take the case and win. All of them told her what I had said which was work together on a settlement and save your money.

[StillPaying]

My comment was to the 3, court hate men, posters.

[Challenger]

My comment was to the 3, court hate men, posters.

All my friends who did fight got 50/50 (of course it isn’t representative for overall statistics).

They all started with mother either moving out with kids or kicking out the father (false criminal claims etc). Then the case judge few months down the road was ordering 2-3 hours a week visitation, which lasted between 1.5 to 5 years, until case finally came to trial, and suddenly giving 50/50 was no longer concern.

So you can say that system isn’t gender biased, but tell it to the eyes of those children who had to wait for years before they could see their dads equally

[rockscan]

All my friends who did fight got 50/50 (of course it isn’t representative for overall statistics).

They all started with mother either moving out with kids or kicking out the father (false criminal claims etc). Then the case judge few months down the road was ordering 2-3 hours a week visitation, which lasted between 1.5 to 5 years, until case finally came to trial, and suddenly giving 50/50 was no longer concern.

So you can say that system isn’t gender biased, but tell it to the eyes of those children who had to wait for years before they could see their dads equally

Technically they set a false status quo. Regardless of their gender, they took the first step. It would have worked if it was a man who did it.

[StillPaying]

(of course it isn’t representative for overall statistics).

... you know it means nothing, but you'll use it anyways.

All my friends got 50/50 from the beginning. Weird...
Imagine all those kids who's parent left the house, delayed, or agreed to less than 50%.

[Challenger]

Technically they set a false status quo. Regardless of their gender, they took the first step. It would have worked if it was a man who did it.

Maybe, it is just hard to imagine father running to a shelter or police with made up drama story that wife was beating him, but yes, with enough creativity it would probably sucked the other way too. I just don’t see how it would help children- they would be without mother in that case for years, which is also bad.

[StillPaying]

If you have very limited access for 3-5 years, the child is either still breast feeding or the parent messed up - making the limited time necessary. A false claim alone would not cause this, and it's certainly not the norm.

[Challenger]

If you have very limited access for 3-5 years, the child is either still breast feeding or the parent messed up - making the limited time necessary. A false claim alone would not cause this, and it's certainly not the norm.

It really depends on how busy the courts are in your region. Here is the real life case:
Ex runs away with kids and files Application.
Case conference only 5 months later.
OCL ordered and SC scheduled in another 9 months
a year after Application parties come to the SC and OCL tells that their report isn’t ready. Case judge is upset and books another SC “just” 7 months away
During next SC judge gets the report from OCL, but unhappy because kids were interviewed over a year ago. He orders another interview and books another SC.
The OCL lawyer steps down and new OCL assigned.
Obviously new OCL needs time
All in 3 years passed, and OCL finally tells that kids wants daddy more than mommy. Judge of course says 50/50.


in my regions courts were also shut down few times due to COVID, which caused even more delays

[StillPaying]

Are we still pretending this is the norm or that the parent didn't mess up. Perhaps I should share a happy story.

[rockscan]

It really depends on how busy the courts are in your region. Here is the real life case:
Ex runs away with kids and files Application.
Case conference only 5 months later.
OCL ordered and SC scheduled in another 9 months
a year after Application parties come to the SC and OCL tells that their report isn’t ready. Case judge is upset and books another SC “just” 7 months away
During next SC judge gets the report from OCL, but unhappy because kids were interviewed over a year ago. He orders another interview and books another SC.
The OCL lawyer steps down and new OCL assigned.
Obviously new OCL needs time
All in 3 years passed, and OCL finally tells that kids wants daddy more than mommy. Judge of course says 50/50.


in my regions courts were also shut down few times due to COVID, which caused even more delays

Ok so after three years dad ended up with 50/50. This wasn't a case of dad never got shared or dad was assigned eow and one night a week. Neither was it ten years later etc. Sure it was not great for three years but in the end it was 50/50.

I could also argue that something should have been filed by dad (read: emergency motion) to get mom to return with kids and have set parenting time while the case went through the process. SP will tell you how that is done.

There are mom's on here who have been fighting for close to a decade to just get regular support from their ex's who want nothing to do with them. Dad's who have disappeared and couldn't give a crap. My mom finally started getting arrears when my father started collecting OAS and CPP. She waited almost 30 years. Forget about what my siblings and I paid for school. That was all on us—no S7, no support, not even a gift or two.

There are horror stories on both sides of the table. Assuming that the courts are completely unfair to men only is a fallacy. Truly courts are unfair to kids. And a lot of that unfairness starts with unreasonable parents.

[Challenger]

Ok so after three years dad ended up with 50/50.

I could also argue that something should have been filed by dad (read: emergency motion) to get mom to return with kids and have set parenting time while the case went through the process. SP will tell you how that is done.

.

Yup, dad actually did ask for emergency motion - was never given one. Instead court booked for case conference, where judge ordered 2 hours a week visitation, and essentially established status quo. From that moment mom was doing everything possible to delay moving the case forward and judge wasn’t even on her side, but wasn’t doing much either.

Those 3+ years without father can’t be returned to children. And if they were without mother, it would’ve suck just the same. This is why I think default should be 50/50, until proven otherwise.