house and SS issue

[bcman]

2 years ago, my wife and I filed for uncontested divorce. We divided our asset into 2 equal parts and agreed to sell our home. We have one kid and will have joint custody. I pay her cs in the amount of $720/m. Since I sponsored my wife to finish her graduate school we agreed on no spousal support. We felt this is fair and we remained as friend since separation. Unfortunately the application did not get through as the judge felt that my wife is entitled to have ss. So my wife hired a lawyer. Now she is asking for
1. sole custody of our kid
2. spousal support
3. they also put a litigation on our house so that I can't sell it unless I agree to put proceeding of the house sale into her lawyer's account.
Just wondering what the hell is the spousal support thing all about? Isn't divorce suppose to let each party move on with their own lives? What's likely the amount and duration I might be asked to pay ss?(10yr marriage, my income is 80k, my wife 25k but she used to make 50k). I have already paid for her study during marriage, why should I continue paying her?
Now how should I deal with our house? It's under my name and I'm tied up with paying mortagage and expensive repairment cost but can't sell it. Each time there is an offer my wife would disagree. This is driving me crazy.

[standing on the sidelines]

so basically if the judge would not have put his two cents in you guys would have had everything settled and you were both happy with it? Then a lawyer gets involved and it goes to hell.

is there anyway that you can talk to her make her see that all that will happen is that her lawyer will nickle and dime it to death and there will be no money left.

Heck have her come to this site and she can read some of the horror stories that happen when lawyers get involved.

[bcman]

so basically if the judge would not have put his two cents in you guys would have had everything settled and you were both happy with it? Then a lawyer gets involved and it goes to hell.

is there anyway that you can talk to her make her see that all that will happen is that her lawyer will nickle and dime it to death and there will be no money left.

Heck have her come to this site and she can read some of the horror stories that happen when lawyers get involved.

That's totally true, both of us were happy and satisfied at that time. I let her to choose and take away the bank account and whatever furniture she liked. Once in a while we would get together to have dinner at a resturant.

Now my life is totally ruined, she has very high expectation of the outcome. We wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours dealing with this piece of crap but have achieved nothing at all. Right now we have become enemies.

[Suchislife]

When a request for SS is put in front of a Judge you never know what might happen.

Many SS orders have NO end. Try and get a time limit.

Your ex wifes income will be taken into consideration. You can argue a capability of earning more. The cost to carry her bills will be considered. Even on top of paying $720 for SS you could easily be asked to pay her anywhere from 800-1100 based on $80k.

If your wife had agreed to selling the home I wonder what has made her change her mind. If you were going to split the proceeds, why would she not want that??
I've never heard of putting the money into a lawyers account! News to me!! She's not now wanting posession of the matrimonial home is she?

You could spend thousands more fighting. It's a crazy waste. Try and consider the benefit of settling (i.e. offering $X amount for say 2 years for SS). It might be less in the long run.

Unfortunately divorce is not about quickly cutting ties and moving on. In many cases one party gets ideas in their head of entitlement virtually backruptiing the other party. Try not to go too crazy.

[bcman]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have no idea why the court disapprove our joint divorce application in the first place. Since then, we have lived in misery. I have to take so much time off my work to see lawyers and go to court that I feel I will be fired soon.

I think spousal support is nothing but modern slavery. I guess my wife change her mind because she might want to move back into the house and in the meantime have me pay for all the mortgage and cost. Or she want to use it as a way to prevent me from walking away from this case.

[bcman]

In my case, I have spent years supporting my wife to finish graduate degree hoping she could be independent. Not sure if the court will consider this as a factor or still award her spousal support?

[today]

did you each have independent leagl advise for your agreement. if not perhaps why judge took a second look? bad situation, once some lawyers up boom watch out,

[bcman]

We didn't have our own lawyer in the very start. Is it normal for the court to disapprove a joint writ of summons?

Then she withdraw the paperwork and her lawyer filed a statement of counterclaim and I suddenly became the plantiff. I doubt this is a trick. This probably make it look like I was the one who initiated divorce and thus have to pay ss.

The lawyer claimed I had family violence, cruelty, etc... and wanted almost everything from me. I guess it's a strategy to make the case difficult to settle and in the meantime also make us suffering longer.

[bcman]

I'm trying to understand what's the most likely and the worst case outcome.
For my kid, I understand we most likely will have joint custody with majority time spent with her. I will have visitation.
Asset will be liekly equally divided.
Child support is based on table, there might be S.7 expenses.
For spousal support, the amount I might be asked to pay is probably $800-$1,000 based on the guideline. What about duration? Our marriage lasted 10 years so theoretically I can be asked to pay 5-10 years? Does the court consider the fact that I sponsored my ex to finish graduate degree during our marriage and she did have a job and thus is self sufficient? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Leila]

so basically if the judge would not have put his two cents in you guys would have had everything settled and you were both happy with it? Then a lawyer gets involved and it goes to hell.

is there anyway that you can talk to her make her see that all that will happen is that her lawyer will nickle and dime it to death and there will be no money left.

Heck have her come to this site and she can read some of the horror stories that happen when lawyers get involved.

So, do you suggest we just don't have lawyers and listen to our husbands 'wise counsel?' Women need to be apprised of their RIGHTS. If I did what my husband wanted me to do I'd be out on the street with a 4 year old. As SuchIsLife said, divorce is not cut and dried. She changed her mind because she CAN. It is a confusing and frustrating process for both parties. One day it will be resolved thankfully.

[standing on the sidelines]

So, do you suggest we just don't have lawyers and listen to our husbands 'wise counsel?' Women need to be apprised of their RIGHTS. If I did what my husband wanted me to do I'd be out on the street with a 4 year old. As SuchIsLife said, divorce is not cut and dried. She changed her mind because she CAN. It is a confusing and frustrating process for both parties. One day it will be resolved thankfully.

I am not suggesting that at all. He said they were BOTH happy with the way they sorted things out. If both people are happy then why involve lawyers?

[billm]

So, do you suggest we just don't have lawyers and listen to our husbands 'wise counsel?' Women need to be apprised of their RIGHTS. ...

A lawyer is not the only way to know of your RIGHTS. I don't use a lawyer in any way and I feel strongly that I know what's what and what a persons rights are (at least in my situation) because I have spent countless hours educating myself and thinking about it, saving myself, and subsequently my family and even my ex, thousands and thousands, not to mention much less headache. Lawyers, though usually solving matters to some extent, should be a last resort, and even then you can represent yourself anyway!

In fact I find the lawyers that I interviewed, of which I have one on retainer just in case I find I really do need one one day (last resort!), were of little or no help. They all said very different things. And what I have heard from my ex's two lawyers (she is on her second) was completely unfair, rude, inaccurate, and adversarial - who needs that?

If you don't know something, then figure it out. It is important enough that you do it yourself - its really is not that hard. Paying someone $400/hour to 'fight' for you is absolutely the wrong way to go for most people. I really find it crazy that the system which is designed to end the most relationships in our lives, feed off of anger and ignorance and are adversarial - the system should be designed to calm everyone down and help them come to a mediated solution that reflects the wishes as well as the rights of those involved. Really there is only one pot a family has that they are splitting and the lawyers of Canada feel strongly that you should do everything through them - hiring two to fight about the smallest detail - at $800/hour (combined)!!! What rational person would solve their problems that way? Any 'couple' who goes to court, or uses lawyers to fight, has at least one person that is not rational!

Who are these lawyers, that designed this crappy system, and then feel it is completely normal to charge $400/hour, all to just drain their clients family at a time when money is more in need than ever. It is no coincidence that the first thing they insist upon is a full financial statement from both sides - then they know how much they can get out of it.

[stressedby-X]

Billm I totally agree with you about lawyers as I am finding out all too late.

What things did you do to better educate yourself about these matters?

I am totally frustrated by the whole process. I too would like to take a mediated approach but of course you must have two willing participants.

I wonder if it would be helpful to send a letter to my ex to suggest we seek out a mediator of his choosing?

I guess since your ex is on her second lawyer this is not a path you have taken.

[billm]

...
What things did you do to better educate yourself about these matters?

As with all of us, I knew very little about divorce really. What I do know is simply by reading reading reading on the internet, and by participating here. As with most things, it seems simple once you finally get it in your head - but at first it is very confusing and scary. The scary part comes from being forced to deal with a former spouse's lawyer whos purpose in your life is to screw you and by that I mean to get as much as possible for their client. In the end though it is a simple thing, and if both of you can see that, and both want to be fair, and have closure, then it can be - you divide EVERYTHING (meaning assets AND debts) evenly, you decide who gets what (assigning a value to everything), you don't sweat the small stuff, you decide on custody (recognizing 50/50 as the default unless BOTH of you want it different), you decide on SS, you follow the guidelines for CS, you write up an agreement, have a lawyer advice each of you, sign it, follow it, and that is that. Who in the hell needs a to pay a lawyer to add, subtract, and divide by 2, or to look up a value in a table? SS can be tricky to determine and advice in this area can help - but I personally don't agree with the SSAG for some situations.

I am totally frustrated by the whole process. I too would like to take a mediated approach but of course you must have two willing participants.

I wonder if it would be helpful to send a letter to my ex to suggest we seek out a mediator of his choosing?

A mediator should be the most common route, and that mediator should have no problems setting each of you straight when you are off base. Who wouldn't want a to try mediation? Especially if it is non binding. It is the cheapest way to get it done with - and if you are worried about what is fair, then you have not done your homework. Why is it so hard to know what is fair?

I guess since your ex is on her second lawyer this is not a path you have taken.

In fact she didn't use either lawyer much, nor like either lawyer much. She has not been easy to deal with because she will agree to something and then not live up to her word when it deals with money flowing from her to me for a change, but better than dealing with lawyers. I have avoided dealing with her lawyers for the most part - about 4 or 5 letters - and in the end I used those letters to show her how off base they were with what is fair - and by that I mean we decide what we want, for example, are we splitting all of our debts and assets as of this date 50/50 - Yes? Okay then this proposal from your lawyer is off by $60K, and here is the simple math to prove it...wtf?

I can be happy about not using lawyers much, but on the other hand I have had to put a lot of effort into keeping it that way, and felt threatened that I could be forced down that expensive and damaging path and I did not deserved that treatment. IMHO

Really, we only don't get along when it comes to money. As for our kids, we do really really well I think - though that too was a learning curve, helped by this forum - the key here is flexible, and to recognize the right of the other parent to make different choices than you would. I am my kids father and I worry about that, they have a mother and I leave that relationship between them.

In the end I am dealing with an ex that I don't understand and even though I don't agree with her choices while we try to end this, she has acted in a way that I think many people here in this forum would be glad to deal with instead of what they are dealt from their former spouses.

Still, I can see why some people throw a divorce party...

[Leila]

Obviously bcman's wife was not happy if she changed her mind. I've changed my mind several times through out the course of this process. I have been studying relentlessly, and since I have Legal Aid (which my ex refers to so kindly as a 'ghetto welfare lawyer') I have encouraged him to NOT travel the $$$ road that he has gone down thus far. We are trying to find our way through an enormous fear and hostility, but trying to use the lawyers as little as possible. What my lawyer has said to me is this; she cannot tell me what to DO, she can only make sure that I am making an informed decision.