CS and job termination

[OnceUponATime]

Good day forum,

We've got a final order, at the time of the order my ex claimed to make about less than me, but we were both in 6 digits. Children live with both parents. My ex was running a business, and I was on a T4.

My income at least on paper appeared to be higher, and I have agreed for an "invariable amount" of offset children support till children grow up (children are high teens), rather than exchanging financial information every year. At time it did make sense, as ex was constantly hiding income, and it was just too expensive to adjust CS with ex who didn't want spend money on own children - we've been chasing ex's disclosure with several appearances and judge just didn't award costs.


I have close to 0 savings, but have house with mortgage (so as ex) and RRSP. So far I haven't missed a single payment, but the lay off came. Likely there will be some package (still being discussed) and probably EI (6 months?), but of course it will be nearly not as much as what I used to make.

Of course I will be looking for a new job, and hopefully will find one, but just knowing market I won't be making as much as I used to.

We are not with FRO (at least not yet). I can send letter to EX, but usually ex doesn't respond, however likely when I will be forced to stop CS because I ran out of money, ex will file something with FRO or court.

What would be best course of action (aside of not signing invariable CS order)?


Thank you

[rockscan]

So if your order has an invariable amount was there a clause about updates at all? If yes, you should calculate what you should have been paying and let her know about your job situation and that things will be changing.

If no clause about updates, you will need to file a motion to change support. If you want to avoid your ex going to FRO, this is the best course as it will need to happen anyway.

How long have you been asking for disclosure and updates? The last three years? As part of your motion you will need to request updated income again. If you are concerned about hiding income, you should ask for accounts and loan/credit applications.

If your kids are getting older cs will probably change anyway so updating now will help. I would be looking at that too.

[OnceUponATime]

There is no variation clause, and when it comes to the disclosure it was just impossible to get one - ex was constantly opening/closing accounts, provided disclosures with delays or missing information and so on, and worst of all when was coming to court, judge wasn't ordering costs.

If I file the motion, can I stop making payments? It will likely generate arrears, and while I want to support my children, I simply don't see how until I get new job - I already have to negotiate with bank on the mortgage so not go into foreclosure and hope to find new employment asap

[rockscan]

The judge didnt order disclosure? Costs are separate and are not always awarded. The thing you want is forced disclosure. Does your ex actually work? Do they have a field they can work in? Do you know they are working?

There is absolutely nothing in your order about updating or changing or varying? Was this because you negotiated a lower amount than you would have been ordered?

You can't stop paying support but you can start working on adjusting. There has to be a reason why you didn't follow the guidelines. The law says you have to update when your income changes UNLESS there is a reason in your order.

[StillPaying]

It appears OP came to an agreement instead of going to trial, which will make it harder to change now. It's common for people on non-t4 income to be imputed a set amount with no yearly updates.

Offset support on similar incomes is zero, so you shouldn't be paying that much. Highly unlikely you'll get a hardship order to stop your support. I would focus on getting a new job instead of filing a mtc.

[OnceUponATime]

There is absolutely nothing in order about varying. Ex is working makes good 6 digits, just is "self employed" and writes off everything.

We had temporary order before which stated "to review support every year on Jan 1 after income exchange" - ex just ignored that and it did cost me insane amount in legal fees and probably 2 years to had it adjusted (again no costs) or repayment of overpaid support. So, the main reason was to get out of court and stop the legal bill - it was just not worth it, considering kids were high teens and in few years will be adult, and even if we had clause to adjust support yearly, I knew ex wouldn't follow it.

I will of course resume payments if secure new employment, but I can't send money I don't have. Not too sure what to do here - when company let go hundreds of employees in a day it is hardly your fault, but clearly your problem.

[OnceUponATime]

It appears OP came to an agreement instead of going to trial, which will make it harder to change now. It's common for people on non-t4 income to be imputed a set amount with no yearly updates.

Offset support on similar incomes is zero, so you shouldn't be paying that much. Highly unlikely you'll get a hardship order to stop your support. I would focus on getting a new job instead of filing a mtc.

correct, had no trial, and yes, already looking for a job practically 20 hours a day.

[rockscan]

If you don't pay support she will go to FRO and if your support is high you will end up in arrears quickly.

Unfortunately you agreed to this regardless of what was happening. If your kids are in their high teens then hopefully support will end.

I really don't understand why you agreed to something with no ability to update or provide disclosure. Even if she writes stuff off she still has an income for support. Your lawyer was either really stupid or you gave up too easily. It wasn't about costs, you should have instructed your lawyer better or kept a tighter rein on them.

[StillPaying]

... looking for a job practically 20 hours a day.

Comments like this in court will ensure you're unsuccessful. Your best hope is to come to a new agreement with your ex. Going to court, you'll be expected to forego your tv, internet, phone, car... long before they'll let you stop support.

Between your package, EI and other benefits, you'll still have an income.

[OnceUponATime]

I really don't understand why you agreed to something with no ability to update or provide disclosure..

I agreed to that because it was cheapest option. Ex makes good 6 digits, but writes off about 90% (makes you wonder where is the CRA when you need it), which made me responsible for 90% of Section 7 and nearly full table amount for CS. Judge was only looking into line 150 and was bored with our attempts to explain ex is hiding income, Then ex comes with an offer to show for CS not 10% of the income, but about 60% - still not 100%, but CS lowers right away, Section 7 too - with kids being high teens it just was better alternative to risking going to trial.

[OnceUponATime]

Comments like this in court will ensure you're unsuccessful. Your best hope is to come to a new agreement with your ex. Going to court, you'll be expected to forego your tv, internet, phone, car... long before they'll let you stop support.

Between your package, EI and other benefits, you'll still have an income.

Hopefully I won't need the court and will get a job instead.. Thank you for the comment.

[rockscan]

I agreed to that because it was cheapest option. Ex makes good 6 digits, but writes off about 90% (makes you wonder where is the CRA when you need it), which made me responsible for 90% of Section 7 and nearly full table amount for CS. Judge was only looking into line 150 and was bored with our attempts to explain ex is hiding income, Then ex comes with an offer to show for CS not 10% of the income, but about 60% - still not 100%, but CS lowers right away, Section 7 too - with kids being high teens it just was better alternative to risking going to trial.

Like I said, a good lawyer would have dealt with that. There are plenty of cases on canlii on self employed income for support. Many of the expenses written off by cra are not accepted in family court. She wasn't hiding income and that is probably where you got tripped up. She was writing off too many expenses. That is different.

If your kids go to university her income will be a factor in those expenses. You may want to also do some research on self employed income if you end up back in court.