Hiding income

[respondent]

Hi,
having an interesting case. I was ordered on temporary basis huge CS/SS during the case conference couple years ago, as my ex swore in affidavit that she had 0 income, and somehow judge agreed not to use her last year income. I was represented, but I guess counted on my counsel too much who said I should agree, or else they would bring a motion and I'll have to pay for motion as well.

1.5 years ago we had NFP, and there was a final order on NFP and the past support (I was ordered to pay arrears from separation date, despite we lived under the same roof).

Today I discovered that my ex has been working for multiple clients during the period covered in affidavit and was accepting cash for her work. I do have a proof that she did work, for whom and what projects. If this would get to trial her clients would become hostile witnesses as no one would want to admit they were evading taxes (HST), but I still can proof she did work.

So she lied in affidavit in order to get financial advantage i.e. support.

What would be realistic outcome I could count on for her misleading court/me and providing false information in affidavit?
The court would just recalculate the support/would ask her to return entire support, do nothing?

Any chances for me recovering legal fees say for the conferences we had, all support discussions etc.? I essentially will need to start it over as all discussions with my lawyer, court appearance etc. appeared to be based on false sworn data.

[blinkandimgone]

You would probably want to crunch the numbers on what the difference would be vs legal expenses to recoup what would probably be a portion of that - if you were successful. It would need to be substantial to be worth it.

[respondent]

You would probably want to crunch the numbers on what the difference would be vs legal expenses to recoup what would probably be a portion of that - if you were successful. It would need to be substantial to be worth it.

There are few issues here:

1. As she was earning cash (for which I do have proof) I can't know how much exactly she earned. It was more than 0, but it is not known how much.

2. My naïve understanding of legal system was that lying under oath is a big no-no, no matter she earned 5,000 or 5,000,000 - it still means she lied and how could I trust anything else she testified.

3. I spent insane amount of legal fees working with data that appeared to be wrong. If court would return me that (in addition to overpaid support) I think it would be fair, but I could be naïve again.

[rockscan]

You won’t get your legal fees back I believe. But you could request full disclosure including bank statements and credit applications to show cash deposits as well as what she was claiming her income.

BUT…that could cost a lot of money…probably in excess of $20,000 TO START. So you need to ask yourself if the amount of overpaid support (not legal fees) is worth that much plus some extra for timelines.

[respondent]

I did request disclosure, but there is a web of accounts, some of the statements missing etc., and realistically when she is earning cash, she isn't that not smart by putting it to the bank.

What I am unable to understand is why perjury isn't a crime. In theory it is, but in reality it doesn't seem to be.

[rockscan]

It depends on your proof and how you approach it.

Plus, if she applied for a loan or credit, that application would show what she claimed her income was.

[respondent]

It depends on your proof and how you approach it.

Plus, if she applied for a loan or credit, that application would show what she claimed her income was.

yes I did that. She had few credit applications, and numbers there are way higher than her NOA, like many times higher. I don't exclude possibility she provided false information to credit companies too, as income reported with them is way higher than even I expected.

[rockscan]

And thats what you can use as well. If she is telling credit card companies her income is that high then she is lying and you can dispute her claims she needs more spousal.

Child support is based on your income if you don’t have shared offset. But spousal is based off need and if she is telling the bank she has money and it is not her spousal and child support funds then you can use that against her.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?

[respondent]

And thats what you can use as well. If she is telling credit card companies her income is that high then she is lying and you can dispute her claims she needs more spousal.

Child support is based on your income if you don�t have shared offset. But spousal is based off need and if she is telling the bank she has money and it is not her spousal and child support funds then you can use that against her.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?

We do have shared children, and one child even lives with me 100%, so there is clearly offset of CS, and based on her income declared for credit companies the spousal support is close to 0.
I did talk to lawyer, especially after I got the disclosure. His opinion the fact she lied won't matter till we get to trial, and trial is expensive.

[rockscan]

Having her punished for lying is a waste of time and money.

I believe you could file a motion to update child support (and spousal if permitted) and provide the income information as proof to impute her. She may not be so inclined to spend your money without your permission.

[respondent]

Having her punished for lying is a waste of time and money.

I believe you could file a motion to update child support (and spousal if permitted) and provide the income information as proof to impute her. She may not be so inclined to spend your money without your permission.

What you saying somewhat matches what I heard from my lawyer, and from another lawyer I called for "a second opinion". What I don't understand however is what is the point of sworn affidavit if people can lie there without any consequences?

[rockscan]

What you saying somewhat matches what I heard from my lawyer, and from another lawyer I called for "a second opinion". What I don't understand however is what is the point of sworn affidavit if people can lie there without any consequences?

The amount of lies people put in affidavits would keep a court busy for centuries. And judges know it. Not to mention that many people focus more on being morally right rather than just getting through a matter with limited casualties. You would waste thousands trying to prove her a liar rather than simply “winning” less support. Only you care that she’s a liar. The court cares about what her actual income is.

Your two lawyers were right. Work on imputing an income and reducing support. That is the most important focus.

[respondent]

Your two lawyers were right. Work on imputing an income and reducing support. That is the most important focus.

The question what do I impute as an income. She had 4 credit applications in the last 1.5 years. She has provided different income level in each of those applications, because conditions where "provide proof that an income is at least $XXX". So she may have made double of $XXX, just for the credit application it was sufficient to show just $XXX.

[rockscan]

Use the highest one. Attach it as your document as well as your proof you said you have. Make an offer to settle in the mid range.

[terryfyde]

Lawyer was right. Lying doesn't matter until you get to trial unless you try to discredit them a long the way in other motions.

File yourself going for the money. Worth it.

Your costs could be $100/hour for you.
The costs of people to untangle the money web but maybe you get an order that has them paying for that financial advisor.